Ep. 83: Beer, Poop, Showers, Murder
February 3, 2020
Things get stinky and murderous in this week’s special segment, “Never Have I Ever – Parenting Edition,” in which Laura recounts a dirty-diaper conundrum and Shanna talks about dealing with some unwanted guests in her home. Also, Shanna reports on her toddler’s latest motor development, and Laura discusses a very exciting event — her baby’s first birthday!! Finally, they reveal their BFPs and BFNs for the week. Shanna’s toddler is 12 months and three weeks old, and Laura’s baby is one year old!
- Pampers Pull On Cruisers 360˚ Fit* "The yoga pants of diapers" according to Pampers, these are convenient because they pull on. Laura loves them because her baby refuses to stay on his back for diaper changes anymore! *affiliate link
- Balloon Arch Tape* This stuff is genius and makes creating a balloon arch or garland super easy! *affiliate link
- The Nugget Couch Fun floor mat and back rest for making forts or just being comfortable while your kids play.
- Food-grade silicone drink coasters* Laura got these because her baby insisted on playing with coasters. *affiliate link
- Electric Fly Swatter* For all your insect-murdering needs. *affiliate link
This episode's sponsors:
Big Fat Positive: A Pregnancy and Parenting Journey is sponsored by BetterHelp. Join over 1 million people taking charge of their mental health. BetterHelp connects people with licensed, professional therapists in a safe online environment. BFP listeners get 10% off their first month.
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Laura Birek: Welcome to Big Fat Positive with Shanna and Laura. This week we have our weekly check-ins. We have our special segment, Never Have I Ever, where does Shanna confess to committing a murder? We close with our BFPs and BFNs. Let’s get to it.
Laura Birek: Hi, everyone. Welcome to the show. This is episode 83. Hi, Shanna.
Shanna Micko: Hello.
Laura Birek: Hello. Hello. Tell me how you’re doing and how old your toddler is now.
Shanna Micko: She’s 12 months, three weeks, and she’s feeling so much better from the flu, so she is all better.
Laura Birek: Good.
Shanna Micko: Yes, it was not as bad as I thought it would be because the doctor was like, “I’m sorry. You just have to write it out.” She recovered and miraculously none of us in the family ended up getting it.
Laura Birek: That’s amazing.
Shanna Micko: I’m really happy about that.
Laura Birek: Also, you all got your flu shots, right?
Shanna Micko: Yes.
Laura Birek: There you go.
Shanna Micko: Speaking of having a toddler, her walking is getting just better and better and now I can take her to the park and playground and it’s way more fun. I think I was complaining a few weeks ago outside time is so weird because so dirty and she’s crawling and blah, blah, blah. So now we go and she runs around, can kind of climb up the steps to the structure and do slide and it’s just really fun. Man, this age is fun. I know I’m always like, I love this age the best. But this age is really so awesome.
Laura Birek: It’s funny because I’m having the same problem you were… It’s so weird. It’s almost like I’m exactly a month behind you in development.
Shanna Micko: Imagine that.
Laura Birek: Going to the park is a pain in the ass because a lot of them have sand.
A lot of them have little wood chip mulch stuff and all he wants to do is roam. He wants to go and expend energy, but I can’t let him really crawl around on that stuff. We’ll go into the grass and then he’ll get completely muddy and gross and I just let him do it. But I’m really looking forward to when he can be on his feet and I don’t have to constantly worry. Plus he puts everything in his mouth. So when he is that close to the ground, it’s just like, I can’t even get there fast enough.
Shanna Micko: Oh, yeah. It’s so gross. I don’t know if you’ve noticed this yet, but parks, playgrounds are always full of freaking Band-Aids used.
Laura Birek: Eww, no.
Shanna Micko: I don’t know. Well, I do know what it is. It’s kids with boo-boos running around of course and the Band-Aids come off and there’s just the grossest stuff scattered around playgrounds and park.
Laura Birek: Oh, no.
Shanna Micko: So yeah, she’s kind of moved out of everything in the mouth phase and can walk and even kind of starting to run a little bit. She’s just on the move. So super-duper fun.
Laura Birek: Everyone is like, oh, you better enjoy it before he starts walking because you’re going to be running around chasing him and he’s going to be going so fast.
Has that been the case for you? Do you feel like it’s ratcheted up your parenting energy expenditure?
Shanna Micko: That’s a good question. You know what? The walking phase doesn’t bother me at all. I actually really like it because she’s got a lot of independence. She’s happier. She’s always been a baby that wants to do the next thing and gets really frustrated when she can’t do it. So that frustration has abated and she does make beelines for the door. If she sees the door open, she’ll go towards it and try to get outside. On the playground, she’ll kind of zip here and there and try to run off. But maybe I’m just used to it because I already have a kid, but that’s what you do and that’s kind of how I get my exercise. So I don’t have negative feelings about it.
Laura Birek: My instinct about it is that it’s not going to be that different because my guy is such a fast crawler. He’s so fast. Everyone who’s ever seen a video of him crawling or has seen him crawling in person, which I guess is a more accurate representation, the first thing they say is, “Oh my God, he’s so fast.” I’m like, “I know.” The other day I was trying to do bedtime routine by myself with him because Corey was working late and I got him out of the bath and he was naked and I was trying to put lotion on him and he wriggled away from me and he crawled away naked across the floor. I swear it almost looked like a horror movie because he was so fast. It was this little creature crawling unnaturally fast across the floor.
Shanna Micko: That is a creepy image for sure yeah. That is funny.
Laura Birek: I don’t know. My naive instinct is that it’s not going to really make my life that much harder because he’s already really mobile.
Shanna Micko: I will say, yes, exactly. The thing that is stressful for me at this stage is that she doesn’t have perfect balance so she falls a lot and that can be stressful. Just kind of keeping an eye out for corners, things she might topple off of stairs. When her sister comes and hugs her, she falls over. There’s just so many falls and I can’t prevent all of them. But yeah, so that’s a little bit stressful about this phase. I’m a little bit like, okay. Come on. Get your balance up. I’m waiting for when she’s really steady on her feet.
Laura Birek: Yeah.
Shanna Micko: Two other small little things that I’ve noticed this week with her. One is she started clapping by herself, which is super cute and it was one of those things I was worried for a long time that she wasn’t doing. I think we had a baby play date when she was like eight months old and the other eight month old was clapping, clapping, clapping, clapping. I’m like, my baby is not clapping at all and it made me really nervous like, is she behind? Blah, blah, blah. Then I tell myself just relax. She’ll figure it out in her own time. It’s just clapping her damn hands.
Laura Birek: It’s not really like an important life skill.
Shanna Micko: No, you do, do a lot of clapping when you go to shows and stuff.
Laura Birek: Also, in Los Angeles, when you see a movie they clap at the end, which is my favorite LA specific thing. So you’re right. She needs to know so she claps at the end.
Shanna Micko: She needs to know.
Laura Birek: But I get it. I tell myself I’m not going to be that comparison mom and then every time I see a baby that’s younger than my baby who’s doing something more advanced, I’m like, what the hell?
Shanna Micko: Well, the funny thing is about this play date with the baby who was clapping, I could tell that that mom was nervous because CeCe was crawling all over the place at that age and her baby was not.
Laura Birek: Comparison is the thief of joy.
Shanna Micko: Yeah.
Laura Birek: That’s what they say, but I keep doing it. I love baby clapping. I don’t know what it is because it’s the first time you can really see them putting things together in their brain. It’s kind of a complex thing if you really think about it. Not only do they have to figure out how to get their hands together, which is really hard for them. But then they also have to realize that it’s a reaction to something they like. Like, if you like a thing, then you clap. Or if you hear music you clap. I think it’s fascinating.
Shanna Micko: She claps at the If You’re Happy and You Know Clap Your Hands. That’s the thing that really motivated her to learn this and what’s really cute too is she hasn’t learned to clap both hands yet, so her left hand stays in one place and her right hand hits it.
Laura Birek: Oh my God. Amazing.
Shanna Micko: Just freaking adorable. Then the last little thing about becoming aware and putting things together is she’s become totally aware of her diaper and she loves to undo it.
Laura Birek: Oh, yeah.
Shanna Micko: She unsnaps it. She’s obsessed with it and she’s even said, “Diaper,” a couple of times.
Laura Birek: Ooh.
Shanna Micko: So it’s really fun to see her putting all that together and I can’t have no pants on her anymore. Especially in the summer, I was just like, oh, whatever. Just run around in your diaper. But I can’t do that now because she would just take it off and run everywhere naked.
Laura Birek: Oh my God. I was thinking about saving this for a BFP but I will just lay it out there. Do you know about these Pampers 360° Fit Cruisers? They have like a long name. Okay. They’re basically pull-ups, but for little babies.
Shanna Micko: Oh, okay.
Laura Birek: They call them the yoga pants of diapers.
Shanna Micko: Oh my God.
Laura Birek: But they come in I think size three and up and we bought them because my guy does not like to lie down on the changing table.
Shanna Micko: Right.
Laura Birek: So I was like, I need to be able to put a diaper on him standing. How does one do this? They were advertising pretty heavily. I think they’re a new product. I know for sure it’s Pampers and it’s 360° Fit Cruisers. There are other ones that are just cruisers, so you need to make sure you get the 360° one. But I’ve been really liking them. We’ve been using them a lot more. I buy one pack of regular and one pack of those pull up ones, so I can have either. If he just happens to be okay with lying on his back, I’ll be able to put it on. But then I can swap it out if necessary like if he stands up mid diaper change. So I’m a big fan of those and the nice thing is they can’t take them off that way. They’d have to fully pull them off, which I don’t think they have the skills yet.
Shanna Micko: That’s true.
Laura Birek: The tabs are easy to pick and pull off, but in case you need to leave her pants less.
Shanna Micko: Yes, awesome. Well, that is my check-in for the week. What about you guys? How are you doing?
Laura Birek: We had a big week as you know because he turned one year. He’s 12 months old now.
Shanna Micko: Aww, big boy.
Shanna Micko: It’s amazing.
Laura Birek: It’s good. I was stressing out about it a little bit because I was like, my little baby. What happened to my little baby?
Shanna Micko: I know.
Laura Birek: But like you said, they just get more fun. No one told me. I just feel like there’s all this obsession with the baby phase in our culture and toddlers are sort of looked at like, eww, toddlers. You know what I mean?
Shanna Micko: Yeah, troublesome.
Laura Birek: Troublesome, tantrums and all that stuff. But no one bothered telling me about how fun it was to watch them actually have all these massive developmental milestones. It was fun watching him roll over from front to back, but it’s really fun to watch him start picking up words and he’ll look at a cow in a book now and go, “Mm,” because he knows that the cow says moo. It’s just mind blowing that sort of stuff, so I am loving that. It’s okay that he’s getting older. I’m not going to go all weird and try to just dress him like a baby till he’s 15.
Shanna Micko: The solution Laura is to just have another baby. That’s what people do. I’m already jonesing for another baby. I’m not going to lie. I’m already.
Laura Birek: You have embryos ready to go my friend.
Shanna Micko: I know. Getting more geriatric by the day though, so I don’t know about that.
Laura Birek: But you remember when we did our interview with the gestational circuit and she said that it’s actually the age of the eggs that matter not the age of the uterus that’s carrying it.
Shanna Micko: Yes, but I’m referring to the age of the mother that has to care for the third child.
Laura Birek: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Who has to run around after the child.
Shanna Micko: Exactly.
Laura Birek: Got it. Got it. Got it. Got it.
Shanna Micko: So anyway, tell us about baby’s first birthday.
Laura Birek: It was very fun. I think I had mentioned that we got a lot of RSVPs. I thought I was going to keep it small and intimate like you had suggested. I remember when you were giving advice on first birthday parties, you’re like, “Keep it small.” Well, everyone wanted to come, which is so great.
Shanna Micko: Aww.
Laura Birek: My whole extended family wanted to come and so it posed a little bit of a problem of where to have this party because I live in a two bedroom house. It’s under 1200 square feet. We have a yard, but it’s kind of a death trap for toddlers because it’s terrorist and we’re putting up fencing so it doesn’t become more of a death trap.
Shanna Micko: Oh, good.
Laura Birek: It was also still all torn up. Like I said, my mom could sleep in the back, but the area around it still has a lot of rubble from when they had to dig their ground up and stuff. It’s not baby friendly and it’s definitely not something you want to have guests over for. So anyway, the point is we can’t have it at my house.
We couldn’t have it a park because I was worried about rain. So I ended up booking a place, I think I mentioned this before called Playlab in Eagle Rock. There’s two locations. One in Pasadena. One in Eagle Rock, which are neighborhoods of Los Angeles for people who don’t know and it ended up being really great. We had about 45 people, kids and adults attending, including you guys. Your family was there.
Shanna Micko: I know. That’s awesome.
Laura Birek: I think the kids had a blast because it’s just one big play area and they had a big outdoor area. Of course, it was like 75° and sunny.
Shanna Micko: Yeah, it was a perfect day.
Laura Birek: So I could have had a park party, but you never know. Anyway, we booked this place called Playlab that’s in Eagle Rock, which is a neighborhood of Los Angeles. I went into full mom party planning mode the week before the party.
Shanna Micko: Oh, yeah.
Laura Birek: So I had a babysitter one of the days I think Wednesday before the party, the party was on Saturday, and instead of doing all the work I needed to do during the babysitter time, I spent all day going to like Costco and Party City and I was pushing the giant cart around Costco, getting all the supplies for the party: juice boxes for the older kids and the cake.
I got a Costco cake, I got beer from Costco for the grownups and snacks. All that stuff. I just had this feeling like I’ve been training for this my whole life. I was like, I know how to do this.
Shanna Micko: Yes.
Laura Birek: I’ve watched other people do this. But I very distinctly remember shopping at Costco with my mom for our parties and I was just like, we need juice boxes, we need water, we need something for the grownups, we need chips and I’m just piling it all in the cart. So I definitely felt very Zen there and then I spent way too much time in Party City trying to figure out whether it was worth it to buy like a special little garland that went around the high chair because I didn’t have time. I guess I could have taken that day to make stuff, but I decided that I was just going to do one craft for the party. I guess it was two crafts. Technically, I was going to make the backdrop. I think that’s pretty good restraint on my part because if you know me, I love crafting. If I had nothing else to do for a week, I would’ve done a lot more. But I stopped myself. So what I did is I made a paper garland that was a bunch of circles. I got like a big three inch circle paper punch and a bunch of different colors of like teal card stock and I punched out a bunch of different colors and then I sewed them into like a garland on my sewing machine.
Shanna Micko: Cute. I remember that.
Laura Birek: So I made a bunch of them to hang and then I tried to make like a balloon arch type thing and so I got this stuff called balloon tape. Did you know about this stuff? Did you know it existed?
Shanna Micko: No.
Laura Birek: It’s not sticky. It’s like a plastic roll of non-stick tape that has holes in it and you blow up the balloons and you just stick the end of the balloon through it and it stays. So that’s how you can make those big arches and if you do helium, they arch up and then what I did is just because I knew I needed to make it ahead of time and it wouldn’t stay, I blew them up with regular air so that covered the top of the garland where I taped it to the wall. So I thought it looked pretty cute.
Shanna Micko: Totally.
Laura Birek: I wish made the garlands a little longer, but I was afraid of babies going up and tearing them off the wall.
Shanna Micko: Oh, yeah. I’m sure that would’ve happened.
Laura Birek: So I did that and then everything was blue and green and teal colored. Not because he is a boy, but because those are my favorite colors and you know if it’s nothing else, it’s a party for me.
Shanna Micko: Yes, it’s 100%. You guys survived the first year as they say.
Laura Birek: I know. It’s actually really interesting. Almost everyone told us congratulations, which I think is very appropriate and we welcomed it, but I didn’t realize that everyone was going to say like, a very happy birthday to the baby. But it was like, “Congratulations. You did it.” So that was fun. The party itself was really fun. The kids had a fun time playing around. It’s just like a big playground. Outside they had like a sand pit, which obviously the babies didn’t go into, but the older kids did and had a great time.
Shanna Micko: Elle loved it.
Laura Birek: I think it went really well. We only had two hours, which is great. Having to leave is a great reason to end a party.
Shanna Micko: Yes, that is the good thing about having it in those places. They kind of just usher you out so the next people can come in and it’s over. One thing that stood out to me about that play place was that big play couch that was in the playroom in the back. It was like those foam cushions.
Laura Birek: What are they called? They have a name.
Shanna Micko: I know because I ordered one.
Laura Birek: Oh, you did?
Shanna Micko: Yes, I loved it so much. It’s like this two long foam couch cushions and two triangle wedges and you can fold it and turn it into forts, but you can also lay on it like a couch. It’s so cool. It’s called the Nugget. It’s what it’s called.
Laura Birek: I knew it had a name that was kind of funny and weird.
Shanna Micko: It is a weird name and they apparently are so in demand. This thing is on back order. I ordered it anyway. It’s not going to be shipped for 14 weeks.
Laura Birek: Oh my God.
Shanna Micko: I know. I need this thing in my house because what I need is just more kid stuff in my freaking house. But you know me, I’m always trying to find things to entertain my children in the house because I work in the house.
Laura Birek: But it’s also nice because it gives you a comfortable place to sit if you have to be on the floor with them.
Shanna Micko: Yes, I love it for so many reasons. So I’ll let you guys know when I get my Nugget if they think it’s worth it and if it becomes a BFP or BFN.
Laura Birek: Oh, yeah. You’ll have in 14 weeks. Check in episode…
Shanna Micko: 100.
Laura Birek: Yeah.
Shanna Micko: The big episode 100 reveal.
Laura Birek: That’s all we’re going to do. Nothing special for episode 100. Just like, how’s the Nugget?
Shanna Micko: Yeah, exactly. Anyway, it was a blast and he was so cute and adorable and just seemed he was having a great time and aww, I’m so happy for you guys and him.
Laura Birek: It was really fun. Actually, there was one more thing I wanted to mention, which is something that we did that I was really happy that we did in the end and I was a little on the fence about at first. But that’s that we shared his birthday song with his little buddy from Mommy & Me who has the exact same birthday as him. They’re 28 minutes apart I think we decided.
Shanna Micko: Aww. I was wondering about that. I did not know that was coming and all of a sudden there was a second baby up there and we were singing to two babies and I didn’t know the baby and I kept thinking to myself I need to ask Laura what that was all about and now I know.
Laura Birek: Well, so what happened was he was going to have his own birthday party and I’m really good friends with his parents now. We’ve done Mommy & Me together for almost a year and I just really like them and the two of them just being exactly the same age, they’ve just kind of bonded. It’s really cute. They give each other kisses in Mommy & Me and stuff. It’s very sweet. So they were going to have their own birthday party for their baby and then they got into a car crash on their way to look at a venue.
Shanna Micko: Oh, no.
Laura Birek: They just decided let’s do a half birthday in the summer maybe, or they just kind of took it as a sign they had to buy a new car. There was just all these costs and they were stressed out about it and so they just decided to skip it and so the night before when I was going shopping, I was at Party City, I picked up an extra number one candle. I should mention that the “smash cakes” I got them, I just wanted to say this as a tip because I thought people might like it, I went to the grocery store and just bought one of the squares of precut cake that they have. Have you ever noticed that?
Shanna Micko: Oh, nope.
Laura Birek: They call them individual servings of cake. They’re huge.
Shanna Micko: That thing was gigantic.
Laura Birek: It was huge. It was I think $3.50 and it was like, I want to say four inches by four inches. Something like that. Maybe even bigger and it had frosting and sprinkles on top. It worked perfectly fine as a smash cake and my baby ate like a lot of it.
Shanna Micko: Yeah, he did. He was so into it.
Laura Birek: It was very cute and also he probably had more sugar than he’d ever had in his life before and then of course the other baby, he was just like playing with it. It was really funny to see their side by side reactions to it. My baby was carefully eating all the frosting and the other baby’s smashing it in his hands and he don’t think he ate any of it. But anyway, the night before I saw they had two of those cakes and I was like, you know what? I’m going to get one for his little friend.
Shanna Micko: Aww.
Laura Birek: They happened to have two high chairs there. So I was like, you know what? I definitely had a moment where it was like, no, I don’t want to do that. This is my baby’s birthday. It’s his special day and I thought, you know what? That’s not the kind of values I want to instill in him. Sharing is always more fun. Sharing is better. So I thought maybe I have a little residual like, well, we organized his party, we did this, we did that. It should be his and I was like, but why? It’s the other guy’s birthday too. He should have a fun special moment and I feel like it was really nice actually.
Shanna Micko: It was nice. It was so cute to see them together eating their cake in totally different ways. That’s awesome.
Laura Birek: It was a really nice reminder to me that it’s always better to choose the bigger choice because I think it would’ve also just felt weird that we’re all singing to my baby and it’s this other baby’s birthday and they don’t know. They’re just babies. Maybe when he is older he’ll want to have his own special day and I’m sure my friend’s baby will too. But for now it was really, really nice to include him and his mom sent me a nice text saying it was really meaningful and then we ended up going over to their house later that night because they had a little impromptu celebration. They made pozole and had us over and that was really nice too.
Shanna Micko: Cool.
Laura Birek: Sharing his caring, folks.
Shanna Micko: It is.
Laura Birek: But he’s one and he’s not walking yet, but I guess that doesn’t make him a toddler. I don’t know what he is. I’m still calling him my baby. He’s my little baby. So, okay. I feel like that was a big on load and we might need a break.
Shanna Micko: All right. Let’s take a break.
Shanna Micko: We’re back and we have our special segment this week, Never Have I Ever Parenting Edition, where we play the old college drinking game, never have I ever, but with things that we never thought we’d ever do in our life before we had kids. So here we go, Laura. You’re up.
Laura Birek: Okay. Never have I ever used beer as baby bait.
Shanna Micko: Oh my God. What?
Laura Birek: So I was drinking a beer the other day and I don’t know what it is about beer cans. My baby loves them. He wants to put his mouth on the side of them I think because maybe they’re cold. They’re brightly colored most of the time and my baby we’re trying to work on him walking. He is cruising like a champ, but we’re trying to encourage him to walk between the couch and the coffee table basically, or between two short distances and he was so obsessed with this beer can. I kept putting it off to the side where he couldn’t reach it and he’d go, “Eh, eh,” pointing and freaking out. So I was like, well, if you want it so bad and I put it on the coffee table and then he dropped to his knees, crawled over stuff and tried to grab it and then I felt like a really bad mom because I was like, I should be like, here, come and get the beer, baby. Oh my God. Did you have to bait CeCe in any way to encourage her to walk? Or was she just like, I’m going?
Shanna Micko: Oh, no. No encouragement. She was just like, just going to do it. Just desperate to do it.
Laura Birek: I think part of our problem is that he crawls so, so fast. So it’s like he’s like, why would I walk there when I could just get there in half the time?
Shanna Micko: So he’s like, I’m going to get to that beer as fast as I know I can and he did. You could also use LaCroix cans. My baby’s obsessed with LaCroix and so that might make you feel less bad about yourself.
Laura Birek: Does she drink the LaCroix too?
Shanna Micko: Oh, yeah.
Laura Birek: Really?
Shanna Micko: I give it to her. This is about the age that Elle became obsessed with LaCroix too.
Laura Birek: I remember Elle’s obsession with LaCroix, “Croix. Croix.” You used to call it LaCroix intake.
Shanna Micko: I give CeCe sips of my LaCroix from the can and she makes a crazy face, like the bubbles and everything, but then she begs for more and then it spills everywhere, so now I just give it to her through a straw. I’m probably killing my baby.
Laura Birek: You’re not killing her. It’s fine. I tried to give my baby some fizzy water. I think it was a LaCroix. Gosh, he was eight or nine months old. He was begging for it. He was like, “Eh, eh,” and so I gave it to him and he cried like I had hurt him.
Shanna Micko: Oh, no.
Laura Birek: Like I had smashed his finger or something. It was bad. My mom was with me and we were all like, oh my God, I think it kind of burns I guess.
Shanna Micko: It does.
Laura Birek: It’s just a sharp sensation.
Shanna Micko: He probably was not expecting that at all.
Laura Birek: He was not because he loves water. Yes, so he probably just thought it was going to be his normal beloved water.
Shanna Micko: He’s like, why did you put razor blades in my mouth?
Laura Birek: So I haven’t tried again is the point.
Shanna Micko: Yeah, I don’t blame you.
Laura Birek: But beer, I have not given him a taste of beer. I’m definitely not the mom who cares about giving little sips of beer or wine to kids who are maybe like 10 year olds. You know what I mean?
Shanna Micko: Yeah.
Laura Birek: Please don’t call CPS. I don’t have a 10-year-old. I’m not doing this right yet, but you know what I mean?
Shanna Micko: Wait 10 years before you call CPS.
Laura Birek: Yes, put it in your calendar.
Shanna Micko: Hold on one second. Alexa, set a reminder for 10 years to call CPS on Laura for feeding her baby alcohol.
Laura Birek: Oh, okay. Thanks. I’m so glad I am now in a database. Amazon knows. They already know everything. They’re eves dropping on us all the time, so it doesn’t matter.
Shanna Micko: They know much worse about us than that.
Laura Birek: So okay. To summarize, I have not given my baby beer.
Shanna Micko: Good.
Laura Birek: I have given him fizzy water. He was not a fan, but I have used beer to bait him into walking and no, it did not work.
Shanna Micko: It did not work.
Laura Birek: So you got to hit me with one because I’ve admitted a lot here.
Shanna Micko: Here is my first Never Have I Ever. Never have I ever failed at showering.
Laura Birek: I feel like I have to drink to that. I have failed at showering, but I don’t know if it’s the same way. Tell me more.
Shanna Micko: So this was a little while back and I had to shower and get ready to go to teacher conference at Elle’s preschool. Usually, there’s no timeframe on my showering because I work at home and it doesn’t matter. But I needed to get it done and CeCe was not napping and I had to take a shower while she was awake and at that point, sometimes I would bring the jumperoo into the bathroom. But it’s such a pain in the ass. The thing is ginormous.
The base is like this huge circle and trying to get it down the hallway, I would knock pictures off the wall. It was so awkward and I’m like, I just don’t want to do that. I just should have done that because what did I ended up doing was just so much more work.
Laura Birek: Hindsight is 2020.
Shanna Micko: I was like, I know. She can just crawl around and hang out in the bathroom while I take a shower. I’ll close the door. It’ll be fine. Then I’m like, well, I don’t want her to fall in the toilet. I went and got a big baby gate and gated off the toilet and then I was like, oh, shit. There’s crap all over the floor, little pieces of toilet paper and everything. So I went and got the dust buster and dust busted up the entire bathroom floor so she wouldn’t eat odds and ends and little hair ties and stuff and I set that on the counter and then I got her some toys and I was like, “Okay. You stay here and play with your toys. I’m going to take a shower.” I’m taking a shower and two minutes in the shower curtain pulls back and I’m like, “Hello. Go play. I’m keeping a little eye on you. I can hear you.” She saw the water and started laughing and giggling and she would not go and play. She stood there and got completely soaked from head to toe and I was like, goddamn it. I just need to finish my shower because I was halfway in at that point. So I’m just like showering so fast and kind of letting it go, letting her just get wet and she of course thought this was the best thing that ever happened to her. Just getting completely soaked, water’s going everywhere.
Laura Birek: Oh, man.
Shanna Micko: So I finished the shower and it was fine. I got clean. I finished my goal, which is good. So in that way, I succeeded in the shower. But afterward, it looked like a tornado had hit this bathroom. If a stranger had walked in and seen the state of this bathroom: a gate around the toilet, a dust buster on the sink, water everywhere, they just would’ve been like, what?
Laura Birek: And a baby fully dressed drenched.
Shanna Micko: Yes, it was just such a weird, hilarious fail. I just thought I had this plan worked out and I really thought it was gonna work out and it was just a complete mess.
Laura Birek: You probably took way more time cleaning up before and after than if you had just jumperooed.
Shanna Micko: Just carried the jumperoo back there.
Laura Birek: I feel you on the jumperoo though because right now it’s permanently in our bedroom because I use it when I need to go to the bathroom because the bathroom just is no longer safe really unless I can jump in and grab the baby. Even the guest bathroom, it’s “baby proofed,” but he just manages to find a way to get into trouble no matter what. So I’ll put him in the jumperoo so I can use the bathroom or do what I need to do, brush my teeth or whatever. But it’s a pain. In our house at least you have to sort of collapse it to get it through doors. You have to take the bottom apart and then he’s okay in it. He has maybe like a three minute window where he’s okay in the jumperoo and then he is like, I’m bored. Why am I in this thing?
I’m seriously considering taking it to storage, but also every once in a while it’s just clutch because without it I don’t know. I guess I’d put him in his highchair.
Shanna Micko: Highchair is a good idea. I was also thinking about maybe getting one of those door hanging jumpers. I think it would be easier to tote around. But to be honest, at this point I’ve already given the jumperoo away. We got rid of it. So this story took place a little while ago. But yeah, at this age it doesn’t get much use anymore.
Laura Birek: Well, there’s a point where you’re supposed to stop using it I feel like. I don’t know what it is.
Shanna Micko: I think when they’re heavy enough that their feet just basically touch the floor fully.
Laura Birek: Interesting. But yeah, I think jumperoo is just sitting in our bedroom and taking up space. Then every once in a while I’ll forget to turn the music off on it and I’ll kick it in the middle of the night when I go to the bathroom.
Shanna Micko: Oh God.
Laura Birek: Ours is the exact same as yours. It’s the jungle noises.
Shanna Micko: I will say I got mine as a hand-me-down, if you remember.
It came with no music working. The music is broken, so I’ve never heard the music on that particular toy.
Laura Birek: Would you like to hear it? Hard pass.
Shanna Micko: Thanks.
Laura Birek: I never turned it on when he was like, I want to say less than eight months. My mom was always mad at me like, “Why don’t you put the music on?” I was like, “He doesn’t need it. He’s entertained enough,” and now I’m just like, here’s the music, kid. Turns out he needs it.
Shanna Micko: How they change. So funny. All right. What about you? Do you have another one?
Laura Birek: I do. Okay. Never have I ever left a stinky diaper rotting in my car while I shopped at Whole Foods because I couldn’t figure out which was worse: throwing away a dirty diaper or a McDonald’s bag in front of everyone at Whole Foods.
Shanna Micko: McDonald’s. Well, gosh. Yeah.
Laura Birek: What is worse? I have to say I never fully appreciated drive-throughs until now. I have to admit I was a little judgy about them. I was like, why do we have so many drive-throughs? Why can’t you just get out and go in order at the counter?
I had read Fast Food Nation.
Shanna Micko: What? You’ve judged drive-throughs?
Laura Birek: I didn’t want to admit it at the time. I probably would’ve said I think it’s fine. But I think I had internalized judgment about them. I read Fast Food Nation whenever it came out in 2000 or something and felt all high and mighty about it.
Shanna Micko: Oh, so more the aspect of the food served at the type of places, not the fact that someone won’t get out of their car.
Laura Birek: Yes. Yes. Yes.
Shanna Micko: Okay.
Laura Birek: More about the fast food aspect of it.
Shanna Micko: Got you.
Laura Birek: But I have been humbled. I am sorry if I ever had any negative judgment on it because it turns out that drive-throughs are a godsend when you have a freaking baby who fights getting in and out of his car seat and you’re hungry and there’s no way you’re going somewhere, taking him back out of the car seat, ordering somewhere and coming back in.
Shanna Micko: Or if they’re asleep. More places need drive-throughs basically.
Laura Birek: This is what I’ve decided too. Everywhere needs drive-throughs. Why are there not more drive-throughs? I used to think like Starbucks drive-throughs, why do you need those? They’re so fast anyway. Now it’s like Starbucks drive-throughs, why are there not more of them?
Shanna Micko: I know. That’s the best.
Laura Birek: Maybe where you live, listener, there’s a lot of Starbucks drive-throughs. Not in the more urban areas of Los Angeles. It’s hard to find them.
Shanna Micko: Oh, there is one three blocks from my house.
Laura Birek: Damn you.
Shanna Micko: You got to live in the world.
Laura Birek: I know. I live in the pseudo-suburbs, exurbs? I don’t know what you call them. Or are exurbs further out? I don’t know. Anyway, that’s not the point. The point is that I was out and about with the baby. He was indeed napping in the car and I needed to eat. So I went to McDonald’s. There’s a McDonald’s close to us and I have no shame about it. It was delicious and then we got to where we were going, which was Whole Foods because we needed to get some food. The baby woke up and he had a big old poopy diaper. So I opened up the back of my SUV and changed him back there. Fantastic way to change a diaper, I should add. Then I had the dirty diaper and I realized it was a stinky one. I’m not going to lie. It was a real dirty diaper and my first instinct was I’ll throw it in the empty McDonald’s bag and then throw the McDonald’s bag away and then I looked around at all the Lululemon yoga pants and all the people eating their vegan healthy whole foods and I panicked.
Shanna Micko: Oh, no.
Laura Birek: I didn’t do it, Shanna. I thought about taking the dirty diaper out because there’s a lot of moms there. I don’t really understand the etiquette of when it’s okay to just throw a diaper in a public or semi-public trash can. Can you enlighten me? Do you just throw them away wherever? I feel like at a park it’s okay because you’re outdoors and there’s a lot of kids, but do you have the same hang-up?
Shanna Micko: Yes, I do. I usually make sure that it’s a far distance from people. I would not probably throw a dirty diaper right at the front of a grocery store like that and at the park yeah, definitely. But I’ve also wrapped them up. I have dog poop bags and I keep some in my baby bag and I’ll stick it in there, tie it up, stick it in the baby bag and just throw it away when I get home sometimes too. No, I feel you on that. Even throwing them away in public restrooms makes me feel weird sometimes because they’re so smelly.
Laura Birek: Especially if they don’t have a covered trash can.
I will say that if there’s a changing table, I don’t have any hesitation about throwing it away because it’s like, what’s this changing table for?
Shanna Micko: True.
Laura Birek: You know that at restaurants they change out the trash pretty regularly. So yeah, I left the stinky diaper just sitting inside a McDonald’s bag in the front seat of my car while we went to Whole Foods. Thankfully, we were in a covered garage so it wasn’t hot.
Shanna Micko: It didn’t bake in the sun. Wow. That must have smelled really delicious.
Laura Birek: You could definitely tell. The good thing is that at least the McDonald’s bag kind of like masked it a little bit. Then I felt so silly for caring, but I was like, I can’t throw away a McDonald’s bag at Whole Foods.
Shanna Micko: Oh my God. You are so funny. I would’ve probably tried to be discreet about it and hide it under my arm and then shove it in real fast.
Laura Birek: No one can see this. It was a busy day too, so it’s not still in my car. Anyway, that’s my Never Have I Ever. Should we take a little break before we hear your final Never Have I Ever, Shanna?
Shanna Micko: Yeah.
Laura Birek: We’re back with Shanna’s final Never Have I Ever. Tell us, Shanna. Confess.
Shanna Micko: Never have I ever gone on a murderous rampage while holding a baby.
Laura Birek: I can’t drink to that. I hope you were murdering…
Shanna Micko: What do you think I was murdering?
Laura Birek: I’m going with ants. Were you murdering ants?
Shanna Micko: That’s a really good guess: flies. So this was also a couple months ago when it was hotter in LA. For some reason a couple times a year, fucking fly infestation in our house especially in our kitchen, I don’t know if they breed in the trash or what. I’m making it sound like I live like a dirty hoarders.
Laura Birek: I’ve been to your house many times. It’s very nice.
Shanna Micko: Thank you. So flies drive me CRAZY. I absolutely hate them and the number one reason I hate them is because they breed and then make 30 flies. Like one single fly buzzing around, I’ll try to whisk it out the door. That’s fine.
But that day there were probably like 20 or 30 flies in my kitchen when I woke up that morning.
Laura Birek: That’s too many. Oh my God.
Shanna Micko: No, it’s absolutely disgusting. It triggers some deep disgust and desire to kill. This is very embarrassing because it feels so gross to have them around my food.
Laura Birek: I see that there’s a reason for that because they do spread disease and stuff, right?
Shanna Micko: Yeah, I see these little turds out on my dog poop in the yard and now they’re in my house and it’s just like really, really disgusting. So our solution for flies is we have, don’t call PETA, okay? Please. We have an electrified fly swatter.
Laura Birek: Ooh.
Shanna Micko: It’s very barbaric.
Laura Birek: It works like a swatter but it’s also electric?
Shanna Micko: It’s like a swatter but not one of those little like rubber flippy swatters that we used as kids. It looks like a little tennis racket and the racket part is like an electrified weaving of death. It’s so bad. Oh my God, I feel like such an asshole. I usually don’t kill bugs. I will catch spiders and put them outside and stuff, but I fucking hate flies so much. God, I hate them.
So you hold this tennis racket and you push the buttons on the handle and it triggers the electricity and so you swat it in the air and when it hits a fly it goes bzzz.
Laura Birek: I’m not going to lie. That sounds really satisfying.
Shanna Micko: It’s really satisfying, but it’s also extremely frustrating because it’s not so easy to catch these flies.
Laura Birek: Do you think it’s better than like a traditional swatter.
Shanna Micko: 100% because a traditional fly swatter, the fly has to be on a surface kind of to wait for it to land and then hit it and then it gets mushy guts on your counter or whatever. So this I can catch them in the air or if they’re landed on something. I’m trying to catch these motherfuckers as they’re flying through the air, but I’m holding CeCe because she is just having a moment and won’t let me put her down and so I’ve gotten an electrified tennis racket in one hand. This is truly dangerous. I’m home by myself. I also did this multiple times when I was pregnant. I remember doing this when I was like eight months pregnant because it’s the same time of year in hot fly season and running around and whipping this thing through the air trying to smack flies in mid-flight. CeCe, she was not scared of this. My dog Chili is terrified of this. He sees that thing come out and he runs and hides.
Laura Birek: I wonder if he can hear the buzzing.
Shanna Micko: Yeah, he hates it. So I’m jumping around my kitchen holding CeCe in one hand, swatting flies feeling very victorious when I actually get one and the bzzz but mostly missing.
Laura Birek: God, I wish we had video of this.
Shanna Micko: I know. I really do too. I’m sure it’ll happen again next year because this happens every year. I just become like I’m in a competitive sport and I’m just desperate to win and I spend so much energy. I’m huffing and puffing when I’m done.
Laura Birek: Well, yeah, especially if you’re holding your probably 20 something pound baby.
Shanna Micko: Yeah.
Laura Birek: Wow. That’s amazing. So did you kill them all?
Shanna Micko: I killed them all and felt very good about it and then realized that our trash dumpster was a little bit too close to our back door and I think that’s where they were really and coming in. So I moved it away and that kind of solved the problem.
Laura Birek: Well, that’s good. Sounds cathartic, sounds satisfying.
Shanna Micko: Yes, once you actually succeed it is. But while you’re in the middle of it, it’s a living nightmare.
Laura Birek: This might sound like a stupid question, but have you touched the electrified portion when it’s been live?
Shanna Micko: I haven’t because I’m too scared, but I’m pretty sure Steve has and he’s like, that zaps.
Laura Birek: Yeah, I can’t imagine. It would probably just not feel great. Is it weird that that’s all I want to do right now? I’m like, I want to go over and see how it feels.
Shanna Micko: You’re welcome to come over and play with my swatter.
Laura Birek: I’ll just stop by. That’s all I’m going to do.
Shanna Micko: Just pop in. Drive 30 minutes to my house.
Laura Birek: It’s all business. Not even going to get him out of the car seat. I’ll be like, I’m just popping in to zap myself.
Shanna Micko: I’m going to go get a zap. Wow. So there we go.
Laura Birek: That’s an amazing visual. I don’t know what’s better though: the super pregnant you doing this or you holding the baby.
Shanna Micko: I think the super pregnant me is funnier actually because it’s so awkward. This big belly bouncing around and sometimes I have to stand on a step stool to get up into, like I have a window box above my sink that goes kind of deep back and I have to get up there and try to zap them back on that window. So imagine a huge belly hanging over my sink, trying to whip around an electric tennis racket back in my window box.
Laura Birek: Okay. Yes, would you recommend this product to someone who has the same problem?
Shanna Micko: I would. I like it. There might be something better out there. We’ve tried fly paper. That doesn’t work. They don’t give a shit about that. There might be other kind of like fly a tractor, but I don’t know. This is what we have. It works. It’s a lot of effort when you have a major fly infestation, but definitely for one-offs, it’s fantastic.
Laura Birek: The more you know… All right. So I think our drinking round is over.
Shanna Micko: Yes.
Laura Birek: Should we move on to our BFPs and our BFNs?
Shanna Micko: Yeah, let’s do it.
Laura Birek: We close every show with our big fat positives or big fat negatives of the week. Shanna, do you have a BFP or a BFN for us?
Shanna Micko: I have a BFN. I am going to do a little explaining before I reveal what it is. So I had a problem. The problem is when CeCe’s in her high chair and she eats something messy, which is almost every meal like fruit, orange, spaghetti, whatever she plays with her hair and then gets her hair all dirty. Usually, I reserve messy meals for the end of the day so that we can just go straight into the bath. But she’s eating more fruit and I just want her to eat more variety of things besides just Cheerios and Puffs. So she’s getting her hair really dirty throughout the day and I was sitting there the other day and this was happening and an idea hit me like a bolt of lightning. I was like, I know a solution for this problem: baby shower caps. I’m going to buy baby shower cap, put it on her head while she eats and when she touches her head, it’s going to go on the shower gap and that’s going to keep her head super clean. I did not hesitate. I instantly went to Amazon, found some shower caps with little unicorns on them, hit buy now just right away, they shipped and I got them the next day. I was like, oh my God, this is brilliant. I got the shower caps out. It was mealtime. We were eating spaghetti and I put it on her head and first of all it was way too big so it fell over her eyes and nose and second she just instantly ripped it off. I was like, “No, no, no. Put it on. This is such a great idea.”
Laura Birek: Is it made of the same kind of plastic that adult shower caps are made of?
Shanna Micko: Yeah.
Laura Birek: Okay.
Shanna Micko: Now that I think about it I think it probably was either a kid’s or adult shower cap. I just was so excited about my idea. I just impulsively bought something. It just fell over her face because I don’t think there is such thing as baby shower caps.
Laura Birek: Babies don’t generally take showers.
Shanna Micko: They don’t take showers. They don’t really have hair. No one is genius as me to think of protecting their hair while they eat messy food. No one’s thought of this yet, so it doesn’t exist. But no, it’s a terrible idea. Did not work whatsoever. She just ripped it right off multiple times and got really angry at me and it was a massive fail. So if you’re looking to protect your kid’s hair from sticky stuff, don’t use shower caps.
Laura Birek: How does she do with hats in general?
Shanna Micko: No, she doesn’t like hats.
Laura Birek: I was going to say, my guy, if you put a hat on his head, it’s gone in two seconds.
Shanna Micko: Same. Unless it has some kind of strap under it to hold it down.
Laura Birek: That’s a magical thinking on your part. You know what my next step would be is baby swim caps. Is that a thing?
Shanna Micko: Ooh, baby swim caps.
Laura Birek: Because they’re more fitted. I don’t think it’s a thing.
Shanna Micko: I think people just accept the fact that their baby’s hair gets dirty sometimes and just wipe it clean.
Laura Birek: It’s just going to get dirty. But my guy does the same thing. His sort of go-to is tapping his head and it’s one of his soothing techniques too is pull on his hair, so he constantly has food in his hair.
Shanna Micko: Same with her. Her hair’s growing longer, so she has these little hair wings kind of that stick out above her ear and she’s discovered and so she’s always pulling on that and playing with that as a comfort. That’s why it gets really messy. But it also made me realize how anxious I am about the whole getting messy while eating thing. Like your guy, I’ve seen him eat and he kind of puts food everywhere.
Laura Birek: Oh, God, it’s a disaster.
Shanna Micko: CeCe, I get so uptight when she starts making a mess. I’ve even started double bibing her. I put that big long bib on to protect her clothes and then the bib with the little built-in tray to catch the things and it’s just like, I think I need to relax or maybe it’s just because I don’t have a lot of time during the day, so I don’t want a big mess that I have to clean up after every meal. Maybe that’s it.
Laura Birek: As we’re recording, there is a scattering of toast and strawberries underneath my baby’s highchair because he had his breakfast and then we had to record. So I didn’t have time to clean it up, but it’s just the way it is. You have dogs, so you have I guess that solution built in.
Shanna Micko: Yeah, the floor solution.
Laura Birek: The rest of it. So here’s what I will say is I think your instinct is right that maybe you do have to sort of let go a little bit and I say that because I got great advice when we started solid foods from my Mommy & Me teacher and she was talking about self-feeding. She was very big on instead of spooning the food into the baby’s mouth, even starting at like five, six months you offer them the spoon, they grab it and then they put it in their own mouths and so we did that from the beginning. The problem with that is that when they get to this age, they won’t let you spoon stuff into their mouth. They’re like, no, I’m going to do it. So then things are very messy and it makes eating yogurt really difficult.
Shanna Micko: Oh, yeah.
Laura Birek: But during that discussion she also said it’s going to be messy and you’re going to need to hold back if the mess is something that bothers you, maybe you need to have someone else do it or you need to figure out how to not let it bother you because it’s going to be a mess and you don’t want to clean them up until the end.
Shanna Micko: Okay.
Laura Birek: Because you don’t want to stop in the middle. You don’t want to stop their flow. They don’t know that it’s a mess. You know what I mean? They’re just enjoying the food. So she gave us a little speech on it. I remember thinking like, that’s not a big deal. I don’t know why she’s saying that and I’ve gone back to that so many times because I’ll look at him and he’ll have food all over his face in his hair. It’s just a mess everywhere and I have to remind myself we clean up at the end. This is just the process of learning how to eat. A mess isn’t going to kill anyone.
Shanna Micko: Right.
Laura Birek: We clean up at the end and I think I get a little bit of judgment from people when we’re out at a restaurant, but I always make sure that I clean up at the end and make sure that I’m not leaving a giant mess for the waiters and all that stuff.
Shanna Micko: That’s nice.
Laura Birek: It’s probably a coincidence, but he is a really, really good eater and he’s really adventurous in trying new foods and so I don’t want to mess that up by trying to tell them, no, this isn’t the right way to eat. So that’s what we do. But I get it. It’s like you see them a complete mess and your body just wants to clean up. So it’s hard to fight that.
Shanna Micko: Yes. All right. What about you? What do you got?
Laura Birek: I have a BFP.
Shanna Micko: Okay.
Laura Birek: So this BFP came out of a problem we were having, which was we had glass coasters. They’re made of glass for glass. The thing about them is that I made them. I went to a glass fusing class and made a bunch of coasters.
Shanna Micko: Of course, you did.
Laura Birek: Like another one of my crafts. Then I went back and made more because I like doing it. They’re fused glass. So they’re like four layers of glass. They’re pretty thick and they’re not indestructible, but it’s hard to break them. You’d have to have to really drop them from up high on a very hard surface. So the breaking wasn’t really a big issue, but they also had these little rubber feet on them underneath and my baby likes to chew on everything.
We had all these coasters around and he was constantly picking them up and we were constantly having to take them away from him and it was a problem, but we did not have any other coasters.
Shanna Micko: Oh, no.
Laura Birek: Finally, I was like, you just got to figure something out and I went on Amazon of course and I found silicone coasters that are made out of food grade silicone and they are awesome. So my BFP is silicone coasters.
Shanna Micko: Ooh. Good idea.
Laura Birek: They’re just little circles of that silicone that every baby thing is made out of nowadays and I made sure to get the brand that specifically said it was made out of food grade silicone, even though I’m sure all of them probably are. They had a cute little blue watercolor design on them and they were pretty inexpensive. I’ll post them on our website and our show notes of course. The best part about them is that he can pick them up and chew on them all he wants.
Shanna Micko: Yes.
Laura Birek: We have them around. I got a six pack and they’re washable. So that’s also nice for when you get your coffee spills on it or whatever. We’re back to having coasters.
We were constantly like having to put the coasters away and then go get a coaster at night when the baby was asleep. So the silicone coasters are a win.
Shanna Micko: Yay.
Laura Birek: It’s the little things.
Shanna Micko: Oh, it is.
Laura Birek: It’s the things you don’t realize. Before I had a baby, I was never like, wow, these coasters are going to be a problem.
Shanna Micko: I know, right?
Laura Birek: I’m going to need to get some coasters that the baby can chew on.
Shanna Micko: Oh, man. But coasters can also be a fun little toy diversion to keep them entertained for a little while too. So it’s a two in one.
Laura Birek: I thought about getting like wooden ones, but then I realized he has too many teeth and he would put a lot of dents in that really quickly.
Shanna Micko: He would do some damage.
Laura Birek: So silicone ones will post them on our website of course and we’ll have to post the fly swatter thing, right?
Shanna Micko: Yeah, I think so. Why not? Don’t call PETA.
Shanna Micko: All right. I think that’s about it for us. Should we wrap it up?
Laura Birek: Yeah, let’s do it.
Shanna Micko: If you guys have a Never Have I Ever that you want to share, please reach out. We love hearing those. We love hearing from you. Laura, where can they reach us?
Laura Birek: We are on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook at BFP Podcast. We also have a website: bigfatpositivepodcast.com. You can send us a voice memo in an email to [email protected] and you can join our Facebook community group. It’s a closed group, so you have to request to join. Just search for Big Fat Positive Community and I will add you.
Shanna Micko: If you love our show, please give us a rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts and spread the word.
Let your pregnant friends and new parent friends know about Big Fat Positive. Big Fat Positive is produced by Laura Birek, Shanna Micko and Steve Yager. Thanks for listening.
Laura Birek: Thanks for listening.
Shanna Micko: Bye.
Laura Birek: See you next week. Bye.