Sperm Can Find a Way: A Shocking Conception Story – Ep. 287

Laura

Welcome to Big Fat Positive with Shanna and Laura. This week, we have our weekly check-ins. We have our special segment, Today I Learned, where we talk about prolific parents, looping in public, and puzzling pregnancies. Let's get started.

Shanna

Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 287, the first episode of 2024. Hello, Laura.

Laura

Are we in the future?

Shanna

I think we're in the future. We're recording this in 2023.

Laura

It's true. It's true. But hello 2024 for the hard listeners.

Shanna

Yeah. All right. So how has this week of 2023 been for you and your family?

Laura

It's been kind of a doozy for Augie. Oh, my check in is basically about how this week was like just a wild week for his emotions. This child I don't know it almost makes me think there's something going on like a growth spurt or who knows like something because he was so Extreme on his like emotional outbursts this week that I was really taken aback and Cory and I were both like not sure how to react to it or what to do about it or was causing it and Yeah, it was a lot.

Shanna

It was a lot was this happening at home at school both

Laura

Apparently it was both because we got a message from his teacher saying that he had a hard time transitioning to his after-school program one day and like I think what she said was that he melted to the floor and wouldn't move and was screaming and crying and she was like I'm hoping you'll be able to help me work through this and we'll talk about emotions and I'm like oh we fucking talk about emotions. But yes, yes, very kind teacher. I will talk to him about this for sure. And you know, that kind of took me back because I thought maybe it was just around us that he was doing this, but apparently it's happening everywhere. So last weekend was wild, like, and he was wild. So It was one of those situations where we were just like winding down for the day. He had done his quiet time, which has turned into like just iPad time while Sebastian naps.

Shanna

Yeah, that sounds like a big trigger for his emotions.

Laura

It is, but it will also be a big trigger for him because he's starting to get used to playing them and he loves them so much. Cory doesn't think we need to go there yet because I think, you know, Cory likes playing video games himself. So he sort of sees it as a thing they can bond over and blah, blah, blah. But I just think it reminds me of when he was really little and we realized we had to kind of go cold turkey on screen time like watching Sesame Street or whatever because we could just he just couldn't turn it off. I think it's that it's just his brain for whatever reason It's like all or nothing with these video games and he is bereft when it's over and it's so unpleasant. It's so unpleasant, you know to just have to have that fight. And it's hard for him too, I'm sure, to feel that way. Yeah, totally. I mean, it can't be good to constantly be having these major meltdowns.

Shanna

My girls will play the PlayStation and they will play Steve's VR headset and it is not as intense as it sounds with Augie. Elle did ask for a Nintendo Switch for Christmas. She asked many times for it, and I just kept saying, put it on your wish list. But internally, I was like, hell no, because that I think would cause major obsession problems with her because she gets hyper-focused on playing games on the iPad and stuff, and it can be really hard to turn it off and transition to other things. And I just think that that would escalate things for her. But the console with the controller and the VR headset and stuff isn't quite as intense. Interesting. OK.

Laura

But I'll be sure to report back on what we decide to do. So I don't end on a totally negative note. I will say, you know, I love Augie, and I can handle his meltdowns as just It's unpleasant for all of us, but Sebastian, just a quick Sebastian update. Little Dude is obsessed with giving me kisses right now.

Shanna

Oh, best phase ever.

Laura

I know. Because mama, I kiss you. I kiss you.

Shanna

Oh my god, I love it.

Laura

I know me too. So, you know, there's a silver lining to every emotional cloud.

Shanna

Yeah, there is. Oh, that's sweet.

Laura

All right. So how's your week been? Have you endured many meltdowns or has it been less melty?

Shanna

It has not been as melty and I actually have a bit of an opposite check-in. Yeah, so we all know I have been there with CeCe, the emotional breakdowns and all of that stuff. And we really went through a tough period in the spring and I didn't know what the future held for us, right? I will say that since she started TK, I feel like she is maturing a bit. She occasionally will have some struggles, like she had some struggles with getting that shot that I talked about recently. But in general, I feel like my connection with her is totally blossoming. I am becoming even more infatuated with her. If you know what I mean, it's like, I hesitate to really put this out there because what if my kids listen one day and hear that there are times when I feel like I love them more or less or whatever, because that's not really it. My love for them is completely unconditional.

Laura

No, that's so sweet. I know what you're talking about. It's interesting because like there's this idea that for some reason moms are supposed to have this like constant level from the moment their children are born. you lay eyes on them and you're instantly in love and then you're, it's the same. It's that same level of high intense love their entire lives, right? Until they turn 18 and then you hate them or whatever, right? Not really, but you know what I mean? And obviously that's not how our brains or emotions work, you know? Like obviously we always love them, but I get it. Yeah, there's sometimes like this week, I wouldn't say I felt super connected and lovey towards Aki as he's like, kicking me because he wants to play switch, you know, like that's not a high moment in our relationship. And again, it's a relationship, right? It's like a two way street. So I love this for you guys.

Shanna

And they become more complex and there's different layers to love. And they're just constantly like shocking me. And I'm in awe of their just like little human development. I just love it.

Laura

Yeah. Fascinating.

Shanna

I really love it. So that's one little check in. And my other check in is a wonderful little mom fail.

Laura

Oh, I didn't know that. I thought you, I just assumed you were like Northern European UK area. Nope, nope.

Shanna

I'm like Polish, Czech, Slovakian, like just an even mix of a lot of that stuff with like maybe a touch of Scottish, I don't know.

Laura

Wait, did you do 23 and me? No, I did ancestry. Darn it, because I wanted to see if we were like distant cousins or something.

Shanna

Yeah, that would be exciting. We have to find out a way to determine that. Okay, but anyway, so Steve is a big mix of Western European, English, Wales, Scottish, just German, all bunch of stuff. So I am just like, what are we supposed to pick as her heritage? And the biggest percentage between the two of us was English. I think Steve is like 30% English. So we're like, Hey, Elle, your heritage is English. We had to do research on it, and she had to write a report on it and do a video presentation of making a traditional English trifle. And it's just hilarious to me because we are so not connected to this at all. I don't feel connected to any heritage. This is really bringing up some kind of sense of... loss for me in a way like, oh my God, I don't really have any connection to anything, which feels kind of sad.

Laura

Kid, what comes to your mind when you think of traditional English attire? I'm thinking of Queen Elizabeth I and her big frilly neck thing and corset and giant gown. Oh, like a big rough? Yeah, the big rough powdered faces and I don't even know.

Shanna

Yeah, tight curls, I don't know. So we were just like, okay, you'll just wear something fancy. I totally forgot about it. The morning of the performance, I was like, oh my God, you need something fancy. My kids don't really wear fancy stuff, right? So I'm like, oh shit. So I'm like digging through the closet and I find a dress that we got from the Buy Nothing group like two years ago. It's a size too small for Elle. It's actually in Cece's closet. I'm like, oh my God, here, put this on. Does this fit you? She's like, yeah, great. It's like, take it to school. The teacher was like, you can put on, your fancy outfits, you know, change into them. Like, okay, at least she'll be fancy. We get to their performance and she's got her fancy dress on, but it's on top of her regular outfit. So she's got like her cat and jack baggy pants and tennis shoes.

Laura

Let me just send you a picture so you can see. I have to see this. I do feel like maybe buy nothing is her heritage, you know?

Shanna

I'm sorry. I think you hit the nail on the head there.

Laura

I just set you to the big sir. Okay. It is not as bad as you're making it out to be. Okay. You can just see her jeans peeking out, which is kind of like Arizona heritage. I feel like, you know, casual shoes. No one gets dressed up in Arizona.

Shanna

Yeah. That's true.

Laura

Yeah. All these other kids are wearing very appropriate

Shanna

I was just like, why didn't they just let her change into her dress? I would have had her wear leggings or something, you know, if I knew she was going to pop it on over. In the scheme of things, this does not matter to me. No, at all. I just thought it was so funny, like how disconnected we were from this heritage project and like the grand finale. I just even just like, fuck that up too. Oh boy. So funny. Oh my gosh.

Laura

Well, at least she's participating. Agni didn't even get on stage for his performance.

Shanna

Yes, true. There is that, yes. She participated very much and it was very adorable. They all sang songs of inclusivity and like appreciating everyone from different cultures and it was a really sweet performance.

Laura

I love that our school's doing that.

Shanna

Yeah. Yeah. I like it too. All right. So that's my week. Shall we move on to our special segment?

Laura

Yes, we should.

Shanna

Today I Learned about the man with the golden arm. What? Who's okay? It sounds like some kind of thriller movie from the 50s or something. Like it might actually be a movie with that name.

Laura

See, I'm thinking like that's a euphemism for like a baseball pitcher or something who's like an amazing pitcher who made people lots of money. He's got a golden arm.

Shanna

Yes. Yes. That is not what this fella is. Okay. Dare I say I think this guy is even more remarkable. The gentleman I'm going to talk about is named James Harrison. He is from Australia. He is 81 years old and he just donated plasma for the last time. And he's referred to as the man with the golden arm because his blood contains a rare antibody that can create a treatment to save baby's lives. And in the 60 years that he has regularly donated blood and plasma, he has saved 2.4 million babies.

Laura

Whoa, that's wild, okay? Tell me, Orr, what is this antibody? My guess is it has something to do with the RH or something, but maybe I'm wrong.

Shanna

No, you're right, because you know so much about medical stuff.

Laura

I would have been like, what is it magic?

Shanna

But you're like, it's RH, you're so smart. So when I'm trying to person with RH negative blood, has an RH positive fetus that's known as RH incompatibility. And the parent's body can develop an immune reaction that attacks the baby's blood cells and puts the child at risk. So it's quite a dangerous situation. To be completely honest with you, I don't even really know what RH negative or RH positive means.

Laura

So my basic knowledge of it is from the genetics perspective because that's how my mom taught me everything when we were growing up is like dominant and recessive genes. And then it's I think a dominant trait. And if you're a parent who's RH positive, you may have one positive and one negative gene, you know, one dominant and one recessive. And that means your children could also just have end up with two recessive genes from the other parent, which means they're incompatible with you. I don't know exactly what the RH does, except for it's like a protein, I think that if you have it, you're fine. If you don't have it, you're fine, but they're incompatible with each other. So if one of you is positive and the other is negative, I think there's issues there. I can't remember which direction it's supposed to go.

Shanna

Okay, so yeah, so the incompatibility is a problem and it creates an immune reaction in the mom and that attacks the baby's blood cells. And the antibodies that are created there put the children at risk. But in the 1960s, scientists discovered that the same antibody can also be used to create a treatment to help save the baby. Okay. In Australia, because this is an Australian article that I got this information from, In Australia, they call the antibody anti-D, okay? So it saves babies' lives. This man, James Harrison, just so happens to have anti-D in his bloodstream, a lot of it. Like they discovered that he has got extremely concentrated amounts of anti-D in his blood. Interesting. And it's very rare for people to have this antibody in their bloodstream. But James Harrison has a lot of it. He has an extremely concentrated amount of this antibody in his blood.

Laura

Okay, that makes sense. So it's not something anyone would do nowadays because they test blood for this RH factor. Like that's what if you're an A plus, you have an RH plus, right? And if you're A negative, you don't have the RH. So nobody's getting a transfusion. No one who's negative is getting a transfusion of positive blood anymore, but they probably didn't have the test back then.

Shanna

Right. And it was a while back because he's 81 now and he got the transfusions when he was 14. Oh yeah. Yeah, so he started donating at 18 years old discovered he's got like this magic antibody to save babies and he learned that if he actually donates plasma it's even more beneficial and he started going as often as possible so that he could help save more babies and create more treatments to help Australian babies. And he's been doing it for 60 years. And he just reached like blood plasma donation retirement age. I guess there's a certain point you're not allowed to donate anymore. And he had his very last draw. And yeah, he's kind of a hero.

Laura

Wow. Did they know how many times he went or how many pints of blood he gave? Yep.

Shanna

According to this article on npr.org, he donated 1,172 times. Wow. That's amazing. That is so amazing.

Laura

So yes the same I donated blood once I did it I don't have a problem with the needle or the blood and then I promptly slept for 18 hours

Shanna

Fair enough. Fair enough. I love this detail from the article. It says that of those 1,172 times he donated, 1,162 of them were from his right arm, 10 from his left.

Laura

Gosh, you think? I mean, I guess he has great veins, veins of steel. Yeah. Arm of gold veins of steel. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing.

Shanna

Yeah. So good on him. It's really cool. And he hopes that, you know, he inspires other people who've got this type of antibody to keep up his legacy and, you know, continue to donate. That's so great. Yeah. All right, Laura, you are up. What's your first today I learned?

Laura

Okay, this is something I learned about on TikTok as you do. But I've done some more research. I'm not just relying on the TikTok I saw. To be fair, the TikTok was very accurate. Like my further research verified everything she said. I found it on a user named paging Dr. Frans. And she has a series she's calling sperm can find a way about like all these unusual pregnancy cases. And on there, she has some things that we've talked about before, like people who've gotten pregnant without a uterus, like their babies implanted outside of their uterus or that they don't have a uterus like on the abdominal wall, that sort of stuff. And I'm like, OK, I've seen it. This one was like, ooh, this is new. So let me tell you a story. Okay. This is from a case report from the British Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology from September 1988. And I'm just going to read some parts of this case report.

Shanna

Amazing.

Laura

So it starts with, the patient was a young woman employed in a local bar. She was admitted to hospital after a knife fight involving her, a former lover, and a new boyfriend. Who exactly stabbed whom was not quite clear, but all three participants in the small war were admitted with knife injuries. Okay, so it goes on to describe that she had gotten stabbed twice in the abdomen and it pierced the abdominal wall. They went in laparoscopically and saline out the area and then stitched it up and she was fine, right? Okay. The condition of the patient improved rapidly following the routine, and she was discharged home 10 days later. Precisely 278 days later, the patient was admitted again to hospital with acute intermittent abdominal pain. Shanna, what do you think this means? Do you want to do some math on 278 days?

Shanna

Oh my gosh. Did she get pregnant from a knife wound?

Laura

She got pregnant from getting stabbed with a knife shot. Okay, here's why.

Shanna

So many questions. So many questions.

Laura

Let me answer them. So first of all, no one would ever think this was the case. Truly, right? They'd be like, well, she just got pregnant. You know, this is just a coincidence, right? She just happened to get pregnant right around that time, right?

Shanna

Mm-hmm.

Laura

But here's the thing. Inspection of the vulva showed no vagina, only a shallow skin dimple. What? So she is a young woman who was born without a vagina. Okay. She does not have a vagina. But it turns out she has a uterus and fallopian tubes. Oh, my. Obviously, she had no vagina, so she couldn't like, they couldn't check her cervix. They couldn't do any of that stuff. So an emergency lower segment cesarean section was performed under spinal anesthesia and a live male infant weighing 2,800 grams was born with apcar scores of seven and nine at one in five minutes, respectively. So she gave birth to a full term, perfectly healthy baby boy without ever having a vagina. Okay. And it said on exploration, she had to completely dilated cervix. So she has a cervix and then it said she had a two centimeter deep vagina that ended. She just doesn't have a vagina. So they're like, what? This is wild.

Shanna

there. That was my main question. Where did the semen come into play on a knife? Gotcha.

Laura

But the odds She performed oral sex, must have had some semen around, right? Like who knows what she did with it. Enough was around that it got on the knife that stabbed her in the stomach and she got pregnant. Also, my apologies to everyone listening right now who's dealing with infertility. This must piss you off so much. Right? Oh my god. They go on to say that like the Father accepted the kid they started living together. They're raising the kid and they said by the time the son was two years old He looked very much like the legal father.

Shanna

Oh good. So blowjob daddy is the real daddy

Laura

And then they have to add at the end that the fact that the son resembled the father excludes an even more miraculous conception because I think people maybe thought it might have been an immaculate conception, but no, it was a stabbing conception. But wild, absolutely wild.

Shanna

And the timing involved. I mean, it had to have happened when she was ovulating and like that egg was ripe and ready to go and Sperm will find a way. Sperm will find a way.

Laura

Sperm will find a way. So thank you so much to at paging Dr. Fran for tipping me off to this. This is fascinating.

Shanna

That is so fascinating. I'm blown away by that.

Laura

Can you imagine being that kid though? I mean, that was 1988. So the kid is in their mid-30s now.

Shanna

Yeah, I wonder if anyone ever told him.

Laura

If he's listening, let us know. We'd love to talk to you. Shanna, do you have another today I learned?

Shanna

Yes. Speaking of sperm finding a way, one man in the Netherlands has been banned from donating sperm because his sperm has found its way into fathering over 550 children.

Laura

Oh, that's too many. That's too many. And the Netherlands isn't that big, right? I mean, like that's- Was it the size of New Jersey?

Shanna

I don't know.

Laura

You know, I should know more about the Netherlands because one of my like major website builds that I'm very proud of and I like won awards for was I built the website for invest in Holland. I think you worked on it with me too, didn't you? Yeah, and I should know everything about the Netherlands, but I do think 550 plus is definitely too many for like half siblings to have running around.

Shanna

Yeah, I think so too. So clearly the people who received his sperm as a donor did not know that he was running around the country donating far more than he's supposed to. And so it's been a huge brouhaha, because now that this has come to light, a lot of these parents are very upset. They're like, we didn't really ask to be part of a huge kinship network of half-siblings this large. So the man in question, his name was kept out of the legal proceedings, but the New York Times, leave it to them, found his name. And I'm going to share it with you. His name is Jonathan Jacob Meyer. He's 41. And I immediately had to Google him and see what this man looked like. I think you just need to Google it yourself, Laura.

Laura

All right, let's see. Oh, he has like a whole entry on Google. Yeah, this man, Jonathan Jacob Meyer, is a Dutch musician and sperm donor, according to Google. He has honestly jealousy-inducing hair. He has like long, wavy, blonde locks that go down past his shoulders. He looks like he likes himself. He looks like a guy who thinks he's cool, thinks he's the guy who should be the dad to 500 young people.

Shanna

Yes, I think he has a very strong sense of self. I just love that his first photo looks like the cover of a romance novel. Like I'm pretty sure he's shirtless and he's like staring off and his hair is cascading over his shoulders. I could see why people would like pick his sperm. Yeah. Right. That hair. I would want that hair for my child. But apparently he got away with this by just straight up lying to all of the sperm clinics in the country. Most of them limit sperm donation to like 25 per person and he would just go to all of them and say, no, I've never been any other clinics before and just continue donating and donating and donating and donating.

Laura

Did he give a motivation or anything? Like was it all for ego or was it to make the money? Like was he getting paid? I imagine he was getting paid for these donations.

Shanna

You know, I don't really know, Laura, but I did find a detail that said that not only did he go to clinics all over the country, he also reportedly offered himself as a donor on websites in the Netherlands and abroad and sometimes under an alias. That leads me to believe maybe it's all ego driven. I don't really know.

Laura

That's fascinating and kind of sad. I feel really, really bad for the families who used his sperm because it's so infertility is so tough and there's so many barriers in the way. And then you hear stories like this or that one you talked about ages ago about like switching embryos. And it's just like, why? Like we don't, you guys don't need Extra things to worry about during infertility struggles, you know. Yes.

Shanna

Yes, exactly. Oh man. Well, maybe he did it to boost his Musician profile like to put his name out there How has that worked?

Laura

Do we need to listen to his music? No, we don't know I don't want to hear this guy's music at all But I do I mean maybe he wanted to make the biggest Partridge family style band ever I

Shanna

I think that's what it is.

Laura

Yeah, that sounds right up my alley.

Shanna

I know that's what you want to do on a Friday night. All right, Lord, do you have one more today I learned for us?

Laura

I do. And I'm very excited to talk to you about it because it I think applies to your life. But I want to do it after the break.

Shanna

We are back and Laura is gonna hit us with one more today I learned. All right, you're up friend. What is it?

Laura

Shanna, have you ever heard of the Mariko Aoki phenomenon? No, I have not. Okay. I'm really excited to tell you about this. Okay. Okay. So the Mariko Aoki phenomenon, if I apologize, I'm trying to say the Japanese name as accurately as possible. It's named after this woman, Mariko Aoki, who described the effect in a magazine published in 1985 in Japan. And it's referring to a sudden urge to poop that is felt when you enter a bookstore.

Shanna

I am not sure why this relates to my life, but I'm here for it. Keep going.

Laura

Okay. So I actually saw an Instagram reel about this. And the guy was talking about how like this specific phenomenon is described in the 80s, got a lot of traction in Japan about, and there was a lot of people who were like, anytime I enter a bookstore, I have to poop. And like all these people think, oh, it's a thing. It's a thing. But then there were a lot of comments that were like, oh, it's TJ Maxx for me. Oh, it's this for me. It's that for me. And then I'm like, oh my God. Do your kids have the Mariko Aoki phenomenon?

Shanna

They do and it always happens at Menchies!

Laura

Is that why they're always pooping in public?

Shanna

Yes!

Laura

Mariko Aoki. N-A-R-I-K-O-A-O-K-I.

Shanna

Mariko Aoki. Oh my gosh, this is definitely got to be the source behind my many, many, many trips to the Menchie's bathroom. Okay, what, like, tell me more about it.

Laura

So, some people don't think it's real. Some people think it's a coincidence. Other people, like, were blaming the smell of the books or the glue used to bind the books or whatever. The best explanation I can find is that it's like a relaxation thing. Like, you go somewhere that's kind of like your happy place and your parasympathetic nervous system, like, ah, calms down and suddenly you have to poop.

Shanna

Okay, this checks out. Yogurt shop, beach, Jamba juice.

Laura

Jamba juice, yes. Okay, so this reel I saw on Instagram was from the stomach doc, and the comments are amazing. First of all, his pinned comment was like, okay, after reading all of your comments, this is definitely a real thing. Someone said, TJ Maxx is my laxative.

Shanna

It has to be. Telling you. Men cheese, right? The ice cream shop. Jamba juice. The beach. These are not high stress places. These are their happy places.

Laura

Exactly. I just have to read one more amazing comment. This is from a user named Marty Schwartz. He says, that's how Target got its name.

Shanna

That is so good. I am also really shocked by all these people willing to poop in public. Like that, I have the opposite reaction. Like if anything, I'm just like, not gonna happen in public, but hey, more power to you if you can let loose.

Laura

I feel like it's a real litmus test for like how much shame or embarrassment you were brought up with around like bowel movements, right? Because I'm the same. I'm just like, nope. There are people who apparently will like go on entire vacations. Like they can only poop at home and they'll go like six, seven days without pooping when they're on vacation and come back. Just have a giant shit. So I guess this is the inverse of that, right? Yeah. Yeah, but anyway, I just thought it was cool that you have a name now you can put to. And then anytime you go to Menchies and they're like, I have to poop. You're like, ah, Mariko Aoki.

Shanna

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for figuring this out. So funny that it was bookstores too. Oh my gosh.

Laura

Yes, I will say I do feel like bookstores are a happy place. Like I'll walk into Barnes & Noble and just be like, ah, you know, but I don't feel like I have to poop.

Shanna

I think mine, if I were to have a Mariko Aoki place, it would probably be, I think it would probably be Michaels. I really love Michaels. Yeah, that's a happy place for me.

Laura

The craft store for sure. So anyway, that was my today I learned. I've been sitting on that no pun for like a couple weeks because I was just like, I have to save this for the show. But I wanted to text it to you instantly and I withheld.

Shanna

Yes.

Laura

I had some restraint unlike these people walking into bookstores in the 80s. I commend your restraint. But anyway, that is it for me. Shall we move on to our final segment? Yes, we should.

Shanna

We wrap up every episode with our big fat positives or big fat negatives of the week. And Laura, you are up first, so I want to know. You have a BFP or a BFN?

Laura

I have a BFP. So at the end of this week, last night, to be specific, I had a BFP, which was we went to the Discanso Gardens Enchanted Forest of Light, which is their annual winter light show. And as you know, as our listeners know, Augie is obsessed with these light shows. And we went to three last year, I think.

Shanna

Oh, that's right.

Laura

Yeah, this was the first of our light shows for this year. He was so excited. So was Sebastian. Everyone was so excited because we've just been hyped up about going to light shows all year. Like, I remember in August, they were like, when is the light show? And I was like, I just got tickets. Like I jumped on tickets right when they got released, all that stuff, right? Oh, good. Well, by complete coincidence and by complete surprise, my uncle Peter, my dad's brother, was in town on Saturday. And he messaged, my aunt, her daughter from previous marriage lives in town. And so they come every once in a while. And they usually don't tell me they're coming until right before because of planning and blah, blah, blah. So he messaged and he was like, oh, I'm going to be in town. Can we see you on Saturday? And I was like, yes, absolutely. We're free except for we have this light show.

Shanna

Aw, what a thing. Happy family picture. Everyone is like smiling. Well, except Sebastian, but still. And the beautiful lights. And he does look like Papa Adam. Oh, I love this. What a special picture. That's a framer.

Laura

It really is. I mean, just the fact that everyone's looking at the camera.

Shanna

Yes, yes.

Laura

Major win, yeah.

Shanna

Mm-hmm.

Laura

So yeah, that's definitely a keeper. So yeah, that is my BFP. I love it. How about you? Do you have a BFP or a BFN?

Shanna

I have a BFN-ish BFN, I guess, yeah.

Laura

Okay, what is it?

Shanna

I think we've talked on the show before about the elf on the shelf, right?

Laura

Yeah, a little bit. I don't do it, so I'm so not in the world of elf on the shelf, but I can't remember where you guys land on elf on the shelf philosophy.

Shanna

I was always a hard no on Elf on the Shelf. I don't really care for the story behind it. I just didn't really want to introduce that extra level of work into my life. And so I just like have never done it. But the other day, Elle came home from school and was like, oh my gosh, my friend's elf on the shelf. They named her Chloe. And this morning she ended up in the kitchen cabinets. And it was so hilarious. And oh my gosh, in the night before that, she was in the dishwasher and blah, blah, and going on and on. And Cici was like laughing about it. And they seemed so freaking excited and joyful about it. And I was like, can we get an elf on the shelf?

Laura

They tricked you, Jana. They tricked you.

Shanna

And I'm trying to really, you know, feel the holiday spirit. So I said, yes, why not? I went online to find an elf on the shelf. I thought I could pick it up real quick at my target, which is two minutes away. No, no, no. They're all sold out. Elf on the Shelf is sold out everywhere. I couldn't get one on Amazon very quickly. And I was like, I want to get it immediately. I want to take advantage. If I'm going to do it, I'm taking advantage of the holiday season. I want my Elf on the Shelf today. I just suddenly made it my mission to find an Elf on the Shelf in town that I could pick up. So I finally found one available at Walmart, which I could pick up 30 minutes away from my house. So I dropped the girls off at school.

Laura

It's like a surveillance state version of the find the stuffed animal at Trader Joe's.

Shanna

Yes, exactly. And so Steve and I are just kind of like kids don't you know, it's you're fine. No one's reporting on your behavior like it will just do it'll just be a fun little thing and I'm sure she'll show up in different spots every day and they were so excited to see where. the Kit Kat would show up. So that night I was like, oh my gosh, I'm going to do one of those cute things with the elf on the shelf, like a funny like scenario, you know, so I like open up the snack cabinet and I put Kit Kat in there with like her hand in a bag of goldfish and she's got goldfish crumbs all over her. Like, oh my God, Kit Kat got into the snacks, you know, cute, right? So the girls wake up in the morning, and Cici's off in one room, and Elle comes into the kitchen, and I'm like, oh my god, she's going to see Kit Kat. It's going to be so great. And she stands there, and she stares at Kit Kat.

Laura

I admire the parents who have the time and imagination to like do all these fun elf on the shelf like shenanigans. I just don't. Just said all the philosophical like questions about elf on the shelf aside, like I just do not have the bandwidth to like stage dioramas. every day.

Shanna

Truly, truly. As soon as I realized that that was a flop, I was like, forget it. Like the I just put Kit Kat in different like places in the house every night. So the next morning she was just sitting on the mantle and Cece was like totally delighted by that. She's like, oh my God, she moved. And so I'm like, oh, this just takes very little effort really. to create magic, but I've also forgotten. And she comes in the next morning, she's like, oh my gosh, Kit Kat didn't move. Why didn't she move? So it's just, yeah, it's just a thing. It's a thing.

Laura

It's a thing that now you're gonna have to do every...

Shanna

Ay, ay, ay, ay, ay. And I realized why the book is like, do not touch the elf. It will ruin her magic because the kids will play with the elf and will lose it. And like, you won't be able to find it. I couldn't find it anywhere the other day. I'm like, where the hell is Kit Kat? Because I need to hide it. She needs to go to the North Pole and move. And if your kid like loses it or can't find it, you know what I mean? Like, then you're kind of screwed. So I was like, oh, I get it.

Laura

No presence on Christmas. Have you seen the video that's going around of the kids holding it? Uh-uh. Oh my god. Oh, hold on. I'm going to send this to you real quick.

Shanna

Poor kiddos.

Laura

these children so the video is like a mom rushing downstairs because she hears her kids screaming their heads off like someone like someone had cut a finger off or something right you expect to go downstairs and see blood or something and it's just the baby the toddler holding the elf and the two older sisters are screaming and one is sobbing saying he's not gonna go to sleep or something like that. It's just like, oh my God, I had to get that explained to me, by the way. Like someone posted in there like, this is the funniest thing I've ever seen. And I was like, I don't get it. Cause I don't do the elf. But anyway, hopefully that doesn't happen in your house.

Shanna

Oh no, I already told them they can touch it. It's fine, whatever. I've broken all the rules with the elf, which I'm also a little miffed cause it costs like fucking $45. I'm like, what the heck? That was so expensive. I know. I thought I could get this thing for like 12 bucks. No.

Laura

Oh no. Oh no.

Shanna

You do indeed. Well, I do think that's it for our show, but I do think we should start off the new year with a five-star review from one of our wonderful listeners. Laura, what do you got?

Laura

Yes, we have a brand spanking new five-star review. This comes from Mobley 334 via Apple Podcast.

Shanna

Thank you so much for leaving that amazing review. And listeners, if you haven't had a chance yet to leave us a five star review, could you please do us a favor, head on over to Apple Podcasts, leave us those five stars, say a few things you love about the show, and we might read it on an coming episode. Listeners, if you have any thoughts, comments, or feedback on that episode, feel free to reach out. We always love hearing from you.

Laura

Laura, where can everyone find us? We're on TikTok, Instagram, and Facebook at BFP Podcast. We have a website, bigfatpositivepodcast.com. If you want to send us an email, you can always throw a voice memo in there. Just send it to contact at bigfatpositivepodcast.com. And finally, if you want to join the coolest group of people on the internet and you want to see some exclusive content from me and Shanna, Just search Facebook for Big Fat Positive Community. It's a private group, so you got a request to join and answer those two membership questions so we know you're not a robot. Once you do that, you'll be sent straight through to the amazing, wonderful, supportive conversations we're having in there.

Shanna

Our show is produced by Laura Birek, Shanna Micko, and Steve Yager. Thanks for listening, everyone. Have a Big Fat Positive 2024. Bye. Bye.