Ep. 280 – Nurturing the Non-Mom Part of Your Identity

Laura:

Welcome to Big Fat Positive with Shanna and Laura. This week, we have our weekly check-ins. We have our special segment, Checking the Inbox, Part 2, where we talk about selfhood, sitters, celebrities and more, and we close with our BFPs and BFNs for the week. Let’s get started. Hi, everyone. Welcome to the show. This is episode 280. Hi, Shanna.

Shanna:

Hi.

Laura:

So let’s get straight to it. Why don’t you tell me, what did you do this week?

Shanna:

Well, I have a fun check-in. I went up to the mountains with about a 160 other moms for our yearly mom retreat up in the woods.

Laura:

That’s a lot of moms.

Shanna:

It is a lot of moms. Here, let me show you a picture really quick.

Laura:

I feel like that many moms with their powers combined, could really get shit done. You know? Like, I’m thinking about 160 moms and how prepared they must all be with random shit in their purses. You know? Like, there’s no one there who needed a wipe, who didn’t get a wipe. You know?

Shanna:

Absolutely. Wipes, aspirin, tampons, anything you need, we’ve got it covered. I don’t know that we accomplished a lot, though, aside from dancing, singing, eating, playing games, hanging out, but that’s what it’s intended for. Okay. I sent you a photo. We do this every year. Like, the last morning of the retreat, we all get together and take a group photo. So here’s all of us moms.

Laura:

That’s a lot of moms. You weren’t lying.

Shanna:

So it was a really fun weekend. I just had a lot of trouble getting there.

Laura:

How so?

Shanna:

So I was supposed to go on Friday and Saturday night, and I was all ready on Friday. Like, I took the day off of work because I packed at the absolute last minute, and I wanted to jam it in on Friday. I was like, I’m gonna leave at one o’clock. It’s a two hour drive. I will be set. So I decided this year I wanted to try taking our electric car because I was like let’s save money on gas.

Laura:

Gas is freaking expensive.

Shanna:

It’s really expensive. And I’m like, there will probably be electric chargers along the way. So I headed out at one o’clock, And I wasn’t paying a ton of attention as I headed out on the freeway. I don’t know what happened, like some weird turns. And all of a sudden, the map started taking me north of the San Bernardino mountains, and I’m used to going south. Whatever. Boring. But I’m like, yeah, it’ll probably be fine.

I headed out there, and I realized very quickly that this route is taking me in the middle of nowhere, complete desert, and the electricity on my car is dipping down fast and quick. Within 40 minutes I was down to, I don’t know, 40%. And I’m like, oh, shit. I need to see if there’s a charger around here. And I look one up, and there’s nothing between where I am, which is near Palmdale, and where I’m going, which is near Lake Arrowhead. I’m like, oh, no.

I need to head into Palmdale and charge up. I had such a hassle finding a charging station. I was on the phone with Steve. I’d never charged at a station before. Next thing I know, it’s two hours later and I’m deep in Palmdale at the third charging station I’ve approached, I finally plugged in some Target. And by that time, Laura, it was 4:30.

Laura:

Jesus.

Shanna:

And I was like, oh my gosh, if I continue on, what if I run out of electricity in the mountains, and there’s no charging, and it’s gonna be night because it’s getting dark early? And I panicked, and I turned around and came home instead of going to the retreat that night.

Laura:

Woah. That’s that’s a bold decision, but, honestly, it kinda sounds like if you’d made the other decision, it’s one of those things that ends up on the news. You know? Like, the stranded mom requires helicopter.

Shanna:

With a suitcase way too big for a two night trip, stranded in the mountains.

Laura:

Oh, no. Well, that’s a bummer.

Shanna:

So I had dropped the girls off at school that morning being like, bye, girls. I’ll see you on Sunday. You know? And I roll up a couple hours later, okay, I’m back!

Laura:

So that was disappointing.

Shanna:

I missed the campfire and the s’mores and the singing around the campfire and all that, but I woke up early the next morning and got up there, and it was so fun. As soon as I got there, it was time for the clothing swap. We all bring clothes and set them up on racks, and you just go through and pick whatever you want. I played in field games out on the soccer field, and my team won first place.

Laura:

Nice.

Shanna:

There was a talent show, which I didn’t participate in this year because I couldn’t get my act together, and then a dance party. I mean, it was just so fun. Exactly what I needed to recharge, be away from momming for a little while, and just have a blast.

Laura:

That really sounds like fun, and I’d love to join if I’ll ever be invited to the group.

Shanna:

I know. I know. You know I would invite you in a heartbeat to this group I’m in. They’ve capped the number of people they’re letting into this group, and we’ve tried, Laura. We’re trying to get you in there. I think it’ll happen soon.

Laura:

Okay. Well, I’ll try not to hold a grudge for my almost 5 year delay to get into this group. But I do understand how when groups get too big, they become unwieldy and unsustainable, so I get that. I get that.

Shanna:

Yeah. It’s not 900 people in the group.

Laura:

And we should mention that it’s based on a Facebook group. Like, this all sprung out of this Facebook group. Right?

Shanna:

Yes.

Laura:

Yeah. Well, I’m so glad you had fun though and that you didn’t get stranded on the side of the road.

Shanna:

Me too. Me too. So, yeah, that was my fun little momming adventure for the week. What’s going on in your world?

Laura:

Well, I had fun, but kind of in the opposite way. I had some intensive momming while having fun, which is that we went to Disneyland this weekend.

Shanna:

Okay. How fun.

Laura:

So this was our actual makeup trip for Sebastian’s 2nd birthday that we had to miss all the way back in February. We had gone one time before that I had talked about on the podcast. But this time, my mom was able to come along. So this was sort of our real makeup trip for Sebastian’s 2nd birthday.

Shanna:

Right. Because she was supposed to come along the first time. Right?

Laura:

Yeah. Well, she was. She was there. We just didn’t get to enter the park because Auggie was sick. Like, so sick. So this time, we all got to enter the park together. Everyone was healthy. And it was honestly, so fun. It was a really great time. We did California Adventure and Disneyland in that order, and I’ve sent you a few pictures.

Shanna:

Alright. Let’s see. Oh, Sebastian, Auggie, your mom and Corey on a ride with some kind of 3D glasses or something. Your mom is very into it. She looks like she’s doing blaster hands like pew pew.

Laura:

Yeah. So this is the web slingers ride at the avengers campus. So it’s like a Spider Man ride, and you fling webs, you sling webs. Excuse me. That’s the wrong terminology. You sling the webs. And you’re supposed to make your hands into that shape my mom is making. It uses augmented reality to make it look like you’re slinging webs at these robotic spiders that have gotten out of control.

And it’s so fun. Super fun. Sebastian talks about it all the time now. We did it last time, and we did this time. It was so cute when they told him we were going to Disneyland again. I was like, oh, we’re gonna go to Disneyland. He goes, Slingwebs? Slingwebs? And I was like, yeah. We’re gonna sling webs.

Shanna:

Oh, nice. That’s so cool. Oh, here all of you are. Is this in front of the ride? Looks like you’re slinging webs.

Laura:

Well, you can get official Disney photos taken at all these different spots in the park, and this happened to be the only time we bothered to stop and do it. So, yeah, that’s our official photo.

Shanna:

Sebastian is squatting down. He looks very funny. Okay. Let’s see. Oh, little guy eating a huge round lollipop. That is the good life right there. Oh, look at this. Your mom is in front of a huge Mickey Mouse pumpkin display, so you must have gone right around Halloween. How Fun.

Laura:

Yeah. For September and October, they really go all out with the Halloween theme in the park, so that was really, really fun. So there was the big Mickey pumpkin at the entrance. And then if you swipe to the next picture, you will see Sebastian living out his dream.

Shanna:

Oh my gosh. Is this a Nightmare on Elm Street display?

Laura:

Viewing Freddy Krueger?

Shanna:

Oh my god. What did I just say? Nightmare. Oh good lord. My brain. What has motherhood done to my brain? Okay. Nightmare…

Laura:

I’ll help you out. Before Christmas. Nightmare Before Christmas.

Shanna:

Nice. Makes a little more sense. Okay. Okay. That’s really cool.

Laura:

Yeah. Actually, this is where you could go meet characters dressed up or actors dressed up as Jack Skellington and Sally, but he did not have the patience to wait an hour for that, neither did I. But when they went to take their mandatory breaks, you could just walk in and stand where they stand, which is all we wanted to do anyway. And we got to see them walk by. Honestly, the guy playing Jack Skellington was super creepy. Like, instead of just putting a big round head on him that was fake, they tried to put weird makeup on his face, and it’s just super creepy.

Shanna:

Oh, yeah. No. Bad choice.

Laura:

Yeah. But we did not stay for the fireworks this time. That was the only thing that disappointed the children because they started at 9:30, Shanna, and we were just not having it. We got there at 8:30, I wanna say. So no. But, otherwise, it was another very chill and fun day. Our two stroller method was working great again. And, yeah, it was just a fun time, and I’m so glad we went again.

Shanna:

That’s so fun. Did you do both parks on one day, or did you stay down there again overnight and do them on separate days.

Laura:

We did both parks in one day. We did a park hopper, and we definitely didn’t get to see all of anything. Right? I like park hoppers a lot. But because the kids are so into Marvel stuff nowadays, I wanted to make sure we went to California Adventure and saw the Avengers campus, and also Cars Land is over there and the Pixar Pier, which has all the Toy Story stuff. And, also, they have transformed the food court area into San Fransokyo from Big Hero 6. So that was cool to see. So, yeah, there was just a lot of things in California Adventure that I thought they would like, and they did. But they also, like by the time one o’clock rolled around, which is when you could go to the other park, they were really excited to go to the main Disneyland. They’re like, okay. Enough with the second rate Disneyland. We want the real deal now.

Shanna:

Well, they know what they like.

Laura:

They sure do. But, yeah, that was it. And you know, I have to say, I feel super lucky that I was able to go. I gotta thank my friend, Marilyn, who actually gifted us two tickets to go. She’s a Disney employee, and she gets free tickets every once in a while.

Shanna:

Oh, nice.

Laura:

She gifted us two tickets because we had gone the last time. We didn’t have enough tickets to cover all of us for this second trip back, and she saved us from spending gosh, I wanna say almost $500 on tickets. So that was very clutch, and I really appreciate it. Really, really do because it’s not a cheap trip to go to Disneyland.

Shanna:

Good ol’ Marilyn. We love Marilyn.

Laura:

We do love Marilyn. She is the best. And, yeah, but I don’t wanna talk too long because I know we have more questions for our special segment, so I think we should get straight to it.

Shanna:

Oh, yes. Let’s do it.

We’re back, and this is part two of our check-in the inbox segment. We got so many questions from y’all that we wanted to do a second segment with your questions. Laura, why don’t you read our first question for us?

Laura:

Okay. This is from Rachel. Rachel asks, I’m wondering, what are some ways that you are trying to find your way back to yourselves as your children grow up? To clarify, I’m talking about how pieces of our identities go dormant as we focus on motherhood. The babies, toddlers, and young children constantly need us and ask for every ounce of mama, which is both amazing and draining. My youngest will be turning one next month, and I also have a nearly two and a half year old and a five and a half year old. And I feel just the beginning tinglings of my pre-mom identity peeking out. But I’m so exhausted. It’s hard to think about how to nurture that side of my identity that isn’t centered around being a mom. So what do you two do for yourselves in nurturing that non mom part of your identities? Woah. Big question.

Shanna:

Wow. That is a big question and such a good question and so relatable that you’re so exhausted with the three young children. I mean, yeah, Laura and I, we have both been there, and we only have two kids. Right?

Laura:

Yeah. I think we both read that, and we’re like, woah. Like, a one year old, a 2 and a half year old, and a 5 and a half year old, you’re gonna be exhausted. There’s no way around it.

Shanna:

Absolutely. So my thing is starting small. Right? Before I had kids, for example, I loved things like hiking, going up to the mountains, and taking big hikes, and exercising, and doing fitness classes. And I just loved all of that kind of physical stuff. And once I became a mom, it was like, I’m too exhausted for it. I don’t have enough time for it, and it all just felt like too much, and so it really, really went dormant. And as I started to emerge and be able to bring some pieces back in, I started small. And, honestly, I’m still doing small things here and there, like taking a walk around the neighborhood, just finding that time alone, like I’m doing something physical, but it’s a smaller version of what I used to do.

Or just the little hike and nature trail that’s by my house. Just doing that. But even if it’s 30 minutes, 60 minutes alone with my AirPods while listening to a podcast, it’s me time. It’s working my body, and it does hearken back to that part of myself that was alive before I had kids. So I really think that starting small is a good thing. And even if it’s something like artsy stuff, arts and crafts. Right? I love doing crafty stuff and creative things, finding small ways to bring that stuff back into your life now, like decorating cakes. Right? I love decorating cakes, and I do that in a small way every now and again, either for my kids’ birthdays or for the nonprofit organization that I work for, but it’s very fulfilling because it’s something I love to do that I can focus on, but it’s not a big, huge overwhelming task that I feel like is gonna push out my children or anything like that.

What about you, Laura?

Laura:

Yeah. It’s interesting. I kinda look at this a little differently. Well, first of all, I’m a little bit closer to childbirth than you are, so I’m still, I think, in the weeds a little bit more than you are, or at least in a different way. Right? You’ve had almost 5 years now since you’ve had a newborn. I’m only at 2 and a half.So I’m halfway there. So I feel like I’m definitely not there yet. But just like Rachel, I feel little hints, little glimmers of it coming back.

And, you know I kind of felt it when I made that knitting pattern recently that I had to knit. And as much as I did not like the cramming eight hours of knitting in every day for a week. I was like, oh, look at this. This is all for me. This is just a thing I’m doing for me. And also the gelli plate printing that I was talking about, little things like that. Like you said, artsy things like that.

Also, one other thing I’m trying to do is have lunches and coffees and whatever with my friends who don’t have kids, which is very novel because you don’t actually end up spending the whole time talking about your kids generally when you’re with them because they’re not curious about all the ins and outs of the logistics. You know, when you get together with mom friends, you ask all these things like, where are they gonna go to school? What are they gonna do? What are they eating? Are they sleeping well? You know, you ask all these questions. You don’t talk about that shit with your friends who don’t have kids. Right? Like, you’ll get a little update, and that’s it.

But sort of the big picture thing that I felt like answering, when I read this question was maybe you don’t have to worry about this so much. I feel like there’s such a emphasis on oh, you’ve gotta get back to your pre-kid self, your pre-kid body, your pre-kid mindset, your pre-kid productivity all that stuff, which all of those are pretty unobtainable when you have small children, especially if you don’t have child care. But also you have changed.

You are now a mom. And, yeah, it doesn’t have to define every aspect of your personality, but you know, I heard someone describe it as sort of like before you were a caterpillar, and then you went to the cocoon and you emerged as a butterfly. And you’re just a different being now, and you don’t have to pretend. You don’t have to be trying to get back to the caterpillar. You don’t have to pretend that you’re not a mom now because it does fundamentally change so much of our day to day lives and our personalities, and our brains, and all that stuff. So, what I’m trying to do is sort of do my real self-care, the stuff that’s really nurturing to myself, while just acknowledging that my life is very different now. My identity is very different. I care about different things, and that’s okay.

Shanna:

I totally get that, Laura. I love that metaphor of the caterpillar and the butterfly and not necessarily feeling like you have to go back. I think for a lot of parents and especially myself too, it’s not necessarily that we wanna go back to who we were before, but that we have a bit of our own identity and independence amongst the new parenting era that we’re in now. We’re not completely losing ourselves in that. And I think you can do that even as small as at the end of the day, after all the kids are in bed watching a show that you really, really like or listening to a podcast that has nothing to do with parenting or reading a book that has nothing to do with parenting. So it doesn’t even have to be so much exertion put into what you’re doing. It doesn’t necessarily have to hearken back to who you used to be, just finding little ways to do something for yourself now so that it’s not all just about parenting.

Laura:

Yes. Definitely having an identity that is independent of your parenthood, even if your parenthood status is very important to you. I think that’s absolutely true. But I do wanna get back to Pilates. I really, really do, and I haven’t figured out how to do that yet. Maybe in the New Year.

Shanna:

Okay. That sounds like a plan.

Laura:

But, yeah, Rachel, good luck. I mean, I would just say, we always say this on the show, give yourself so much grace. You have three young kids. That’s a hell of a lot to deal with. So just take care of yourself.

Shanna:

Yeah. Definitely. Alright. We have a question from a listener that says, you all should do a loose end segment, which we will soon, by the way, but we wanted to get to this question right away. The listener asked “updates on Laura’s job hunt and the end of the writers’ strike?” So that has been looming large in your life, Laura. And I know things have changed in the industry, so we wanna know what’s going on with all of that.

Laura:

Yeah. So as far as the writer’s strike goes, it ended finally. Yay. I feel like the WGA got a really fair deal, and there’s even some bonus stuff in there that we weren’t expecting that’s good for writing teams, and Corey’s on a writing team. So it affects our life you know, basically, how we qualify for health insurance and stuff, changed, which is great. Like, changed for the better. So that directly affects my life because we’re on his health insurance.

You know, he didn’t have a job to go back to. He wasn’t on a writing staff at the moment. He was developing and pitching projects and all that stuff. So, the big sort of day-to-day change is that now he has more meetings. They’re just sort of working on their projects again and trying to get their shows made, basically, hich is great. And then updates on my job search. So, obviously, the potential for Corey to start making money again is helpful because during the writers strike, he couldn’t make money even if he wanted to.

So that was putting a lot of pressure on me, but we talked with our financial adviser. And, now with the writers strike ending, we realized that we have a little bit more runway than I sort of emotionally felt like we had. We got a real-world analysis of our savings and what we have going on, and I realized that I don’t need to rush out and get the first job possible. I thought we might be at the point where I just had to get any job, and we’re not there yet. So I’ve decided to really double down on just rebuilding my client base for my freelance work. Before I took my very extended maternity leave, I had to turn clients down because I had too much work. Like, I couldn’t fit more people into my schedule. And they, of course, all went and found other web developers while I was on a four year hiatus.

So now I’m building that back up. And it takes time, but luckily, we have a little bit of time for that. And the other thing I’m really hoping to double down on is podcast stuff. I’m gonna try to take this time and really focus on what we can do to grow the podcast and put my weight behind it a little bit more and see what we can do there. Really try to to get this to be the thing. Because the dream is for the podcast to be the thing. Right? I don’t need any of my other side hustles because we have the podcast, and it’s such a huge hit.

Shanna:

That would be amazing. That will be amazing.

Laura:

That will be amazing. And that’s not to say that it’s not a big hit now. Like, we are so appreciative of all our listeners, but you know, we don’t do any marketing. We’re bad at it.

Shanna:

I know. We’re busy.

Laura:

We’re very, very busy people. So it’s like, I wonder what we could do if we market. If we actually try to do a little bit of marketing, see what happens. So, yeah. That’s the update. I’m not rushing out to try to get any old job that’ll pay me. I’m trying to sort of be more thoughtful about it, and I feel better about it. And the end of the writers strike definitely helped with that.

Shanna:

That’s great. That’s such a positive update. I’m so happy.

Laura:

Okay, Shanna. Next question. Josie asks, how do I convince my husband we need a dog? And she says toddler equals 2.8, which I’m guessing is just to indicate how old their kid is and how that will play into convincing said husband that they need a dog. I don’t have a dog, so I am not qualified to answer this question. Shanna?

Shanna:

Here’s what you gotta do, Josie. You gotta play the long game. Okay? I announced that I wanted a kitten over a year ago. And, it took a while. It took a while to get there. I think that if you start following a bunch of accounts that post cute puppies and dogs, and you’re occasionally like, hey, honey. Oh my gosh. Isn’t isn’t Peanut Butter so cute? And you’ll start to sprinkle in that you have a strong desire for a dog.

And as time goes on, he’s gonna slowly get used to the idea that oh, a dog might become a part of our life. I think another idea might be to suggest trying fostering first because then it’s not a long term commitment. Maybe you could say, hey, let’s try fostering a puppy at a local shelter and see how it is with our 2 and a half year old, and that might kind of be a gateway to dog owning as well.

Laura:

I think that’s all very smart. My advice is don’t get a dog, but that’s me. I love dogs, but they are a commitment, and I am so overwhelmed with my two kids. Like, I can’t even imagine. So, I would be like your husband being like, nope. Nope. Nope. But later in life, I will want a dog. I think dogs are wonderful, just not for me right now. Not for me.

Shanna:

They’re so cute, though, and so sweet.

Laura:

They are sweet. They are so sweet. They are sweet.

Shanna:

Next question is from Katie. Katie says, what’s your go to list of questions when vetting a babysitter? Good question. Laura, do you have advice on that? You had a nanny for a while.

Laura:

Yeah. So it’s been a little while since I’ve gone through this, but there’s a couple things I remember asking. So first of all, you can Google it. There’s resources for this, but the things that come to mind are you know, other than the like, what’s your background? Do you have experience caring with children my age and that sort of thing, like the real basic stuff? One thing I would definitely ask is a theoretical sort of okay. So let’s imagine Sebastian just bit Auggie because Auggie wouldn’t give him his toy. How would you handle that? And their answer should be pretty telling. Like, they could be like, oh, I’m gonna put Sebastian in a time out. Or who knows what? Or I might tell Auggie that he has to share his toy or whatever. Right? Those answers would tell you a lot about how they would react. Obviously, they’re looking for big red flag stuff. You know I would hit them or whatever. Obviously, they probably wouldn’t say that, but you’re trying to you’re you’re basically trying to make sure your kid is going to be safe. I think there’s a little bit of a difference between an occasional date night sitter versus a long term nanny. Because a date night sitter, if they don’t 100% follow your parenting style that’s okay. Maybe you wouldn’t use a time out, but maybe they feel like they have to because that’s the only way they can manage both kids or whatever. If they’re there once every three months, Your kid’s not gonna develop behavioral problems because they’re using a different parenting style. But if they’re there every day or multiple times a week, that’s a different consideration. Right?

So I would definitely ask about how would you deal with punishments? How would you deal with conflicts? I think I would also ask things like, what would you do if there was a fire? You know, where would you go, who would you call? Where would you take the kids? Obviously, you’d wanna give them emergency contacts, but you wanna know if they just sort of have basic understanding of what to do. Or what do you do if you’re in an earthquake area? So I’m mostly focused on safety, so that’s the sort of thing I would check. Also, I would ask them do you plan on using screen time? And depending on your own personal opinions about screen time, their answer could be totally different. This is all about seeing if they’re a match for your family.

And then I would definitely ask for references. I would say are there other families you’ve done sitting for, I could text or call, just so I can talk to the other parents. And if they say no or they don’t wanna give out numbers, that’s kind of a red flag in my opinion. So, yeah, those are the ones that come to mind. Shanna, how about you? Do you have any questions that you ask sitters?

Shanna:

Oh, lord. No. We’ve never had a babysitter.

Laura:

Come again?

Shanna:

Oh, we’ve only had grandparents watch the kids. Well, when Elle was very small, I interviewed some nannies. I was thinking about getting a part-time nanny so I could work. We never ended up hiring one because I was like, I’m doing the math, and it doesn’t really work out financially. But I think that you’re on the right track. Another one that comes to mind is how would you respond if my child hurt herself while on your watch? I find that I prefer caregivers that are comforting, and nurturing instead of more of the oh, you’re you’re a big kid. Brush it off kinda attitude. I really like that.

So, yeah, I think all those kinds of questions you can ask to get an idea of how they’re gonna be with your children are great questions.

Laura:

And good luck. I will say one tip that I didn’t realize until recently is that preschool teachers often do sitting, like date night sitting or weekend sitting. And we’ve recently gotten Auggie’s former preschool teacher to come do a date night for us. So that’s great. They’re usually already pre background checked if they’ve been hired by a preschool. And if they are your kid’s preschool teacher, they already know them. And you know a preschool teacher can handle a dozen children at once. Like, they can handle your kids.

Shanna:

Brilliant.

Laura:

So even if your kid isn’t in school, maybe ask your friends if their preschool teachers will do it. So that’s a hot tip.

Okay. Next question is from Katie. Katie wants to know, I’m so curious if either of you have tattoos. Shanna?

Shanna:

I do have a tattoo. I posted a picture recently on social media of me as a team mom with a huge sleeve tattoo, and I think that really threw some people for a loop.

Laura:

Yes. It did. We got so many comments. People are like, oh my god, does Shanna have a full sleeve? And I’m like, no,

Shanna:

And it’s Really hilarious because if you zoom in, you’ll see that it’s a Halloween themed sleeve tattoo, so it’s like an evil pumpkin. The idea of me getting a tattoo of an evil pumpkin over my whole arm permanently is so funny to me. But no. Mine is one that I got when I was 19 when the lovely lower back tattoos were popular. So I’ve got what they call the tramp stamp. I wouldn’t say it’s my pride and joy, but it’s there. It’s like a Celtic spiral. I studied abroad in Ireland around that time, and I was feeling like Celtic spirit, so I got a little Celtic spiral that’s got the three primary colors in it. I will say, I have been feeling drawn to getting another tattoo recently.

Laura:

Interesting. Really?

Shanna:

I don’t know if it’s a mid-life crisis thing or what. Yeah. I’m even feeling drawn to maybe getting a piercing, like a nose piercing or something and a tattoo. So I don’t know. Y’all might see a big shift in Shanna Micko. So just stay tuned.

Laura:

Wow. I did not know that.

Shanna:

What about you, Laura? Tell us your tattoo history.

Laura:

I have none. I have none. I got nothing. I I wanted one when I was a teenager, and my mom basically told me she would disown me, essentially. Like, my mom who is the most relaxed parent. She was the mom who was like, I’d rather you drink at our house than out and about. You know? She did not have a lot of rules. No motorcycles and no tattoos were her two rules.

She would not budge on that. And then I kinda grew out of wanting one, and I kinda realized that I was glad that I didn’t put something on my body that I liked, when I was 18 because lord knows what would have ended up there. I do have a very large birthmark on my shoulder.

Shanna:

That counts. That counts.

Laura:

Yeah. It’s very noticeable, and people always comment on it. I called my Gorbachev because it kinda looks like Mikhail Gorbachev’s head one that is on my shoulder.

Shanna:

Oh, amazing.

Laura:

Yeah. That’s it for now. That’s it. I do admire other people’s tattoos. I really admire a really a fine line botanical tattoo. Like, my friend Kate has a gorgeous one on her arm. But yeah.

Shanna:

I might have to get her tattoo artist’s info because that’s kind of the style I’m thinking of.

Laura:

Okay. I will send it to you.

Shanna:

Alright, Laura. We have a couple more questions, but I think it’s time for us to take a little break, and we’ll come back with those.

Laura:

Okay. We are back, and we’ve got a couple more questions to answer in this segment. Let’s get straight to it.

Shanna:

Alright. Next question. If you had another baby, would you opt for an elective Caesarean or a VBAC?

Laura:

Well, this is very theoretical because I’m not having another baby. But if I were, I would go for a VBAC at this point because I did it the one time, and it worked out pretty well. And I remember my friend, Erica, who’s an MFM, when she was convincing me to try for the VBAC in the first place, she was like, well, that means that when you have more kids, you can then have a vaginal birth because you’ve already proven that you can have a VBAC. I’m like, it’s not happening. She’s like, you never know, Laura. You never know. So if I were to find myself pregnant, yeah, I’d probably go for the VBAC, but I would also not be hesitant, like any hint of maybe you need to have a c section, I’d be like, that’s fine. Because there’s no right way. How about you, Shanna? I feel like the answer is probably the same, but in the opposite. You’ve already been faced with this question, and you made a choice.

Shanna:

Yes. I opted for a repeat c section without hesitation. But, honestly, part of the reason I did is that my first birth was very chaotic and a little bit traumatic and stuff, and I wanted it to be calm the second time around. And I had a bad scar from my first c-section. It was embarrassing. It was very, I don’t know. I just did not feel good about it at all, and I knew that if I got a repeat C-section, my doctor, my new doctor would fix it, and that did happen. So I’m really happy with that. My second birth was great. And then I watched you have a VBAC successfully. I didn’t literally watch it. I was not in the room. No.

Laura:

I heard about it. You did hear the audio.

Shanna:

I did. I heard it. And that makes me feel like, hey, maybe I could try for a VBAC. And, also, it’s easy to say that because I’m not gonna have any other kids probably. So it’s easy to be like, yeah. I’ll do that. So, yeah, I might try for a VBAC.

Laura:

It’s such a personal and individual decision, and also it’s specific to each pregnancy. You know? The fact that I chose to have one with Sebastian doesn’t mean that I’d necessarily be in the same position to choose it again with another kid because who knows? Maybe they’d be in a slightly different position or my water wouldn’t break or who knows. Right? But it is a good question to think about.

Shanna:

It is.

Laura:

Okay, Shanna. So we have one final question. This one comes from Galina. She asks, if you could have any celebrity as a mom friend, who would it be and why?

Shanna:

Good question. Okay. So I’m thinking of two people that I think I would like to be friends with, and they’re both funny. I think that’s my main criteria. Like, I want someone funny, relatable, and cool. So my first one is Sona Movsesian. Do you know who that is? You do. Right?

Laura:

The name is familiar, but wait. How do I know that name?

Shanna:

She is the co-host of the Conan O’Brien podcast. She’s like his long-time assistant, and she wrote a book. She recently had twin boys, and I believe she’s around our age. So she’s a geriatric mom, which I like, not that there’s anything wrong with non geriatric moms, but she just seems funny and cool and seems like she would have so many fun stories to share. And then my other is Michelle Buteau, who’s a comedian, who I think also has twin boys, and she is on that new show Survival of the Thickest on Netflix, and I’ve been a fan of hers for years. I’ve followed her podcast and her stand up, and I think she is freaking hilarious.

And, when she became a mom, I was just like, mom friend! Except she’s famous and lives in New York, so I don’t think it’ll ever be.

Laura:

Well, you know what? Sona is a bit more within reach because I feel like I think I have one degree of separation from her.

Shanna:

What? Tell me more.

Laura:

Well, I used to work at NBC, and I knew people who worked on Conan’s Tonight Show when he worked at the Tonight Show. So I know people who’ve worked for Conan, and I’m pretty sure someone once commented oh, yeah, Sona. I know Sona casually.

Shanna:

Oh, okay. There’s something there, Laura. There’s something there. A little thread.

Laura:

Sona, If you’re listening, Shanna wants to be BFFs with you, and then drop me. Just kidding. We could all be friends.

Shanna:

Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Okay. But what about you? Who are you gonna bring into the friend circle, Laura?

Laura:

Okay. So I have a bunch of names that came to mind, and some of them are similar to yours. Like, one that came to mind was Ilana Glazer who was on Broad City. She is a mom now, and I’m just like, oh, it would be so fun to be friends with her. So, Ilana, if you’re listening, I love you. You’re amazing. It wouldn’t be weird at all if we’re just fawning over for our new friends. Right?

Shanna:

No. Not at all. They would love it.

Laura:

And then the other person who you probably are gonna be surprised by this because it’s not like I’m a super fan or anything. But the reason I’m like, oh, I wanna be friends with her is because it seems so plausible and why hasn’t this happened yet, and that person is Mandy Moore. And I say this because she lives in Pasadena, and we have kids the same age. Like, her older son is the same age as Sebastian, I think. And whenever she’s posting pictures of her kids’ park visits and stuff, I’m like, that’s Lacey Park. Like, we go there. You know? And finally, one of my mom friends in my friend group from mommy and me class has finally met her.

They’re now in the toddler program at her preschool together. So she’s like, it finally happened. I’m in class with Mandy Moore, and I was like, oh, man. I’m so jealous.

Shanna:

Wow. You clearly need to start hanging around in Pasadena more.

Laura:

Why did I move away?

Shanna:

I don’t know. Bad life choice, Laura. Bad life choice.

Laura:

Very true. And then I also had all these people that aren’t necessarily super famous, but they’re famous to me who, like honestly, the first person that came to mind was I wanna be friends with Angela Garbes, who wrote the books Like a Mother and Essential Labor. I absolutely loved and admired both of those books. And I just wanna be friends with her so we can talk about very nerdy feminist stuff together. And then there’s people who we’ve talked to who we’re casually acquainted with, but I’m like, I wanna be better friends like Virginia Sole-Smith or Emily Oster. But, yeah, I think my sort of pie in the sky one would be Mandy Moore. So, Mandy, if you happen to be listening, I’d live over in Glendale. We’d love to hang out.

Shanna:

Yeah. You’re not far. You could do it.

Laura:

Oh, well, that was fun.

Shanna:

That was. Thank you, listeners, for sending in all your questions. It’s so fun for us to be able to answer them, and hopefully, we’ll do another Checking the Inbox soon. But until then, Laura, I think it’s time to move on to our BFPs and BFNs.

Laura:

We wrap up every episode with a big fat positive or a big fat negative of the week. And, Shanna, I wanna know, what do you got? BFP or BFN?

Shanna:

I’m sad to say I have a BFN. So I was all jazzed about signing Cece up for that singing class. Remember?

Laura:

Yeah.

Shanna:

Super singers. And I think last time I talked about it, we had gone to one class. We went to the first one, and she was kinda shy. And I was just a happy mom. Like, oh my gosh, I’m getting my daughter involved in something cute and artsy, and it’s so great. And I was really happy with it all. Well, a lot of weeks have passed since then. And, Laura, this class is bullshit.

Laura:

Oh, no.

Shanna:

In my opinion, I think CeCe is perfectly fine with it. It’s great on many levels. It’s walking distance to our house. We scooter over there, and she sings little songs, whatever. It’s 25 minutes, I think, technically. We always get started late because it’s in a little preschool room, and it’s a bunch of little preschool kids who are playing with the toys in there. And so the teacher has to spend five minutes trying to get them to stop playing with toys. Okay? So then we start class, and then we spend another 5 to 10 minutes practicing lining up to sing. Like, lining up and walking in and out of the room. The class starts at 4. Right? The other day, I texted Steve at 4:15. I was like, we’re still lining up. They’re still lining up.

Laura, I paid $400 for this class, so that’s why I’m a little bit irked. If I had paid a smaller amount of money for the class, I’d probably be like, well, whatever.

Laura:

How many weeks is it altogether?

Shanna:

I think it’s three months. So not horrible, but more expensive than other singing classes I found. I was like, I’m going for the more expensive class because it’s close to home, and it fits in our schedule. Right? That’s why I did it. It is how many weeks in now? I don’t even know. But we are still singing, Frere Jacques, and Do Re Mi. Like, no new songs have been taught. There’s no musical instruments. Everything for some reason is acapella. I’m just like, these are three four year olds. We’re not trying to come up with an acapella group here.

Laura:

Who’s the base? Okay. Who could do the beat?

Shanna:

Cece’s over there beatboxing. I don’t know, Laura. I just don’t know what is going on with this music class. Every time I go, I’m just very frustrated that I’m paying money for her to sing Are You Sleeping Brother John a couple times and the Doe a Deer song. That’s it. I just kind of needed to gripe about the fact that this class has been kind of a bummer.

Laura:

Yeah. It seems like what you want when you’re paying for a class is something that you can’t do with your kids. Right?

Shanna:

Yes.

Laura:

You are paying the premium for someone else to do something that you do not have the skills to do with your kids, like properly teach them how to swim or teacj them how to sing songs you don’t know. But you know Frere Jacques. I’m sure you could have taught her to do it at home.

Shanna:

Yes. And I have a little singing background. I did choir and musical theater and all this stuff. So I’m like, why can’t we teach them warm ups? Why are we not warming up? Why are we not learning to match pitch? Like, where is the structure in this class, and why are we just singing the basic songs? You really hit the nail on the head with that, Laura. I could teach her this stuff. I don’t need to pay money to have this.

Laura:

That is a bummer. Well so are you gonna stick it out?

Shanna:

Yeah. I’m gonna stick it out until this semester is over, but I am not going to re-up for the next semester. I’m gonna find a different extracurricular activity for her.

Laura:

I will bet you $10 she will beg to go back.

Shanna:

I know. Oh my goodness. Well, hopefully, I’ll find another singing class that will work out better for us because I don’t know if I can sit through 15 minutes of kids lining up every day for the rest of the year. Anyway, that’s my BFN. What do you have for us this week?

Laura:

Well, thankfully, I have an educational BFP to share.

Shanna:

Okay. That’s good.

Laura:

Cleanse our palates a little bit. So my BFP is that I got to be the mystery reader at Auggie’s school this week.

Shanna:

Oh, fun.

Laura:

And you described the whole mystery reader process with Elle’s class a while back, It sounds like it’s basically the exact same thing. It’s like they don’t know you’re coming, and then you show up and you read a book. And I don’t know about you, but for me, part of the deal was you also have to prepare a craft to do with them after you read the book that’s related to the book.

Shanna:

Oh, yeah. No. I did not do that.

Laura:

This is what you get for going to an arts magnet.

Shanna:

I guess so. Nice.

Laura:

So, of course, I fretted about this for ages. Right? Because I’m like, oh, craft. Right? Like, I’m so excited to do this craft.

Shanna:

Gelli plates.

Laura:

Yeah. I know. I know. Trust me. My difficulty was trying not to overcomplicate it. Right? Because, of course, I can come up with a craft, but can I come up with a craft that 4-5 year olds can do easily in 10 minutes? Right? That’s harder.

Shanna:

Right.

Laura:

That’s actually a pretty hard thing to figure out. And luckily, I had sort of seen the examples that other parents had done for their mystery reader session. Someone had come in the previous week and done Dragons Love Tacos, and then the kids assembled their own tacos out of construction paper. So they had precut taco shells and precut lettuce and precut tomatoes and stuff, and they just glued them on the construction paper and made their own tacos. And I was like, okay, that’s a good template for what’s possible. So I chose the book Extra Yarn, which I think I’ve talked about on this podcast before. Yes? No?

Shanna:

Sounds kind of familiar, but I’m not sure I know it.

Laura:

Of course, I love it because it’s about a little girl who knits. It’s by Mac Barnett and illustrated by Jon Klassen. Jon Klassen is the one who did all the hat series books like I Want My Hat Back and That’s Not My Hat and all that stuff. And it’s about a little girl who lives in a cold little town that’s covered in soot, and there’s no color anywhere, and it’s all a wintery landscape. And she discovers this magical box full of yarn of every color, and the yarn never runs out. So she knits sweaters for everyone in town. She knits sweaters for the houses, for the trucks, for the trees. So everything starts to change in the town because it gets colorful.

Shanna:

That’s neat.

Laura:

Then an evil archduke comes and tries to buy the yarn off her, and she won’t sell it. So he ends up stealing it. But when he gets it back to his castle, he discovers that it’s empty, and he curses the little girl and throws the box out the window, and it floats back to her, and she gets her yarn back. And when she gets that the yarn’s in there. It’s a cute little story, and it’s one of Auggie’s favorites. He loves reading Extra Yarn probably because I force it on him all this time.

Shanna:

You will love yarn.

Laura:

Yes. You will knit. And so for the longest time, I was like, oh, what am I gonna do? Am I gonna make little you know, Corey had suggested when you glue popsicle sticks in a cross, and then you weave the yarn around it.

Shanna:

Right. I remember those.

Laura:

And I was thinking of Auggie, and I’m like, I don’t think they have the fine motor skills yet. You know what I mean? Some of them will, but some of them won’t. And I don’t want it to be super frustrating. And then I remembered I have the Cricut, my cutting machine.

Shanna:

Right. Right.

Laura:

And it has a feature called print and cut, which I had never used before, but I was familiar with it because I lurk on the Cricut Facebook groups and stuff, which is where you print something out on your printer, and then it cuts the silhouette out. And I was like, oh, what if I print out the little characters from the book? Because at some point, she runs out of people to knit sweaters for her, so she makes sweaters for the bears and the rabbits and stuff. And, so I was like, I’ll print out the little animals on card stock, and I’ll cut a little slit at the top and a slit at the bottom so they can just wedge the yarn in and then just wrap it around and quote, unquote, make a sweater for them. So that’s what I did. Of course, it took me a whole day to do that and get the crafts prepped. I had to wind all the little balls of yarn. And I remember, I think you were like, oh, you wanna record today? And I was like, no. I have to spend all morning winding little balls of yarn.

Shanna:

There’s a Never Have I Ever for you.

Laura:

Right. But I got it done. And the other fun bonus is that my mom got to come along.

Shanna:

Oh, that’s awesome.

Laura:

Yeah. So we showed up. We had to sneak on to campus, and we snuck into the classroom, and Auggie was so excited to see us. Although he claimed he knew, he was like, I told Chase. I told him it was gonna be you. And I was like, oh my god. And we read the book. I was a little surprised to discover a lot of the kids, especially a couple of the little girls, were scared of the book.

Shanna:

Really? Oh, no.

Laura:

And they knew it. Like, there was one girl. She was like, I’m scared of this book. Another girl was like, I am too. I’m like, oh, oh.

Shanna:

Because of the evil archduke?

Laura:

Yeah. Because of the evil archduke. And I’m like, okay. Alright. Well, noted. Sorry, you kids. But they were so cute, all listening to the book, and then we went to do our craft.

And, Shanna, it was a hit. Oh, nice. They loved it. I’m so proud of myself for figuring out a craft that was just the right level of difficulty for this age, because there were a lot of kids, especially the younger kids who could barely do it. They needed help getting it started, and then they wrapped it around pretty haphazardly, but they got it done, and they were very proud of themselves. And then the older kids, the kindergarteners, and you know, let’s face it, the girls, honestly were so much better than the boys at this, and that may sound gendered, and I guess it is a little bit. But in my observation in Auggie’s class, the girls did a much better job of this craft than the boys. They could make multiple ones because I made extra. So they got to a bear, a cat, and a dog, and they were changing colors. They’re like, I’m gonna make the neck blue and the rest of it rainbow. And I’m like, you do you. But everyone seemed happy about it. And, yeah. So I did it. I mystery read.

Shanna:

Yay. Do you have any pictures of the craft? I wanna see.

Laura:

Yeah. Let me see what I’ve got.

Shanna:

Alright. Let’s see. Aw. There’s grandma Susan with Auggie working on the craft. How special that she got to come to school. Oh, I love that. Oh, those little balls of yarn are really cute. They’re multicolored. I bet the kids loved that.

Laura:

Yeah. I know what kids like. I knew they wouldn’t want some boring ass yarn.

Shanna:

Boring ass yarn. No. This is not boring. I’m zooming in here to see, this little kid is making a sweater on what looks like a fox with a very long neck, so it looks perfect for wrapping around the yarn. That’s so cute.

Laura:

And there were little slits in the top so you can wedge the yarn in so it stayed close. You know?

Shanna:

Oh, cool. They are really into it. Every single child I see in these photos is super focused and super excited.

Laura:

Yeah. They were really into it. Like, they were very excited.

Shanna:

How cute. Well, now I’m jealous that I wasn’t allowed to do a craft. Aw. There’s you and grandma and Auggie with the book. That’s so cute. We definitely gotta post that on social because I love it. Oh, fun. Yay, Laura. Good job, my friend.

Laura:

Thank you. Thank you. I feel very proud, and that’s my first elementary school activity under my belt.

Shanna:

Yeah. Yay.

Laura:

Yay. But do you know what else is under our belt?

Shanna:

This episode.

Laura:

Oh, yeah.

Laura:

That’s right. Listeners, if you have any thoughts, comments, feedback about this week’s episode. You know we would love to hear them. Laura, where can everyone find us?

Laura:

We’re on TikTok, Instagram, and Facebook at @bfppodcast. We have a website, bigfatpositivepodcast.com. If you want to send us an email, you can always throw a voice memo in there. Just send it to [email protected]. And finally, if you want to get some exclusive content from me and Shanna, and you want to join the coolest group of people on the Internet, just search Facebook for Big Fat Positive community. It is a private group, so you have to request to join and answer those two membership questions so we know you’re not a robot. But once you do that, you’ll be sent straight through to all the amazing, wonderful, supportive, just absolutely fabulous conversations we’re having in there.

Shanna:

Our show is produced by Laura Birek, Shanna Micko, and Steve Yager. Thanks for listening, everyone. Have a big fat positive week. Bye.