Diet Culture and Parenting with Virginia Sole-Smith (Part 1) – Ep. 248

Laura

Welcome to Big Fat Positive with Shanna and Laura. This week, we have our weekly check-ins. We have our special segment, which is an interview with the author Virginia Sol Smith, who's here to talk about her new book, Fat Talk, Parenting and the Age of Diet Culture. And we close with our BFPs and BFNs. Let's get started. Hi, everyone. This is episode 248. Shanna. Hi. Hello.

Shanna

I feel like we're across a big cavern yelling at each other from side to side. Shanna, Shanna, Shanna.

Laura

We are across the Los Angeles Basin, or I guess across the valley. True. Yep. So tell me what's going on on your side of the valley.

Shanna

Well, things are fun. Over here, we had a good week, couple things to talk about. The first is that at Elle's school this week, it was Read Across America week, which I guess it just means they celebrate reading. And the one thing her teacher does is invite parents into the classroom to read a book to the class. And when I found this out, I could not raise my hand fast enough for this assignment. I was like, please pick me. I've never done anything in Elle's classroom or in any of my kid's classrooms before, you know, with COVID and restrictions and all this stuff, like, just such a distance between me and what's going on in my kid's classroom. So I was excited to be part of the day. Also, there is nobody better suited for this role than me. I mean, I love reading kids' books. I love doing voices.

Laura

I remember that.

Shanna

Yeah. It was so fun. I used to read to first graders. And so I just was very, very jazzed about this. It was a huge process to clear myself, to volunteer. I had to do a background check, like a live scan fingerprint, a TB test with my doctor, you know, all that stuff. So I got all my ducks in a row and the next hurdle was what book to pick. So I, went online and looked up like funny kids books because I knew I wanted to be funny for the kids.

Laura

Got to be funny for the kids.

Shanna

Yes, exactly. And so I found like 20 titles of funny kids books. I requested all of them online for my library. So they all got sent over to my library and put on hold. And I checked them out and read them and read them to the girls and stuff. And I was trying to keep it a mystery from Elle, because that was part of the thing with the teachers. Like it's a mystery reader. You know, you don't know if your parents coming. You don't know when they're coming. You don't know what book they're reading. So I was trying to be sly, but also I wanted to read all these books to her to see like how she reacted to them and what would be best for first graders.

Laura

Oh yeah, focus groups. You gotta make sure that you're picking the right one. I mean, you don't want to show up and read something super boring and then all they remember about Elle is that her mom is a boring reader.

Shanna

Exactly. You're starting to see where my mind is going with all of this, right?

Laura

I've known you for a long time.

Shanna

I'm like, I need to knock this out of the park. So clearly I'm doing a lot of prep work here. Oh my goodness. So we discovered a lot of great, really funny books. But the one I ended up picking is The Book with No Pictures by BJ Novak.

Laura

Look, you got to go with like a surefire winner, right? You can't just pick a new book and hope it'll fly.

Shanna

Yeah, exactly. So I knew this one would be funny. Elle cracked up when I read it to her at home. So I kind of was like, maybe I'll read this one when I come to your class maybe this week. I was trying to keep it mysterious. So I had that in my back pocket and ready to go. Well, the day came for me to go and do my assignment, and I'm getting ready for the big day. Your gig. My gig.

Laura

Wow, Shanna, Shanna, Shanna. I mean, this just goes to show how anxiety can take over your brain in a very irrational way because it's like the stakes are pretty, pretty low on this one. Oh, not to my little brain. But I get, you know, the feeling that it's really, really important and you want to do a good job. So, okay. So you practiced, you got anxiety. Did you suck it up and still go?

Shanna

Of course. I went down there. My anxiety peaked because it was raining and I couldn't find a parking spot, you know, and I'm worried about being late and I had to park far away and, you know, go in the rain and everything. Oh, it's just all this build up, right? I mean, from getting cleared to go into the classroom and wanting to do a good job. All this build up. And I get there, I go in the classroom. I read the book, it takes about six and a half minutes, I finish and I leave. Like the whole thing took about 10 minutes total.

Laura

Of course, yeah.

Shanna

It was just hilarious. But it was, it was awesome. It was great. The kids laughed. It was a totally fine reading. I loved engaging with them. Elle was like super happy and proud to have me there. And overall it was a success despite my anxiety.

Laura

Can you do a little of your robot monkey voice?

Shanna

For those of you who know the book, yes, it's pretty standard. It's just like, I am a robot monkey. What about you?

Laura

It's a hard one because like monkeys, but then it's like, I'm a robot monkey. It just goes robot. There's no monkey to my robot, but I just say robot monkey.

Shanna

Yeah, it's a tricky one. You know the line they love the most? They just died laughing was, My only friend is a hippo named Boo Boo Butt.

Laura

Boo Boo Butt. I knew it was going to be Boo Boo Butt because it's always Boo Boo Butt. That is, I mean, I can just look at Augie and say Boo Boo Butt, like, and he will start cracking up.

Shanna

Oh, it's such a great line. And the kids, I could tell like half of them are like very rule following. I don't think they're allowed to say the word butt in their classroom, you know, and here I am saying butt and they're just kind of like looked around nervously in the other half like Elle and her more like wild friends. They're like,

Laura

That's really funny. This is reminding me of when I went into Augie's classroom to read books. I read I Want My Hat Back by John Klassen. And as I'm reading it, I'm like, ooh, is this a controversial choice? Oh, because of the bear eating the bunny in the end? Yeah, because of the rabbit murder.

Shanna

Rabbit murder.

Laura

At the end of it. Yeah. But, you know, whatever. Whatever.

Shanna

It came out of my mouth. Whoops a daisy. Yeah, I definitely had that moment of like, oh, I just said boo boo butt. But you know, I did clear the book with a teacher ahead of time. So she like gave me the go ahead. So I felt.

Laura

Oh yeah, smart.

Shanna

It's okay. But yeah, it was just a really fun way to be able to participate in her school life that I haven't had a chance to do yet. So hopefully now that I'm cleared, I can do more things in the classroom or maybe chaperone field trips or something. I don't know. We'll see.

Laura

Yeah, totally. I mean, you went through all that effort. You might as well capitalize on it.

Shanna

Yeah, exactly. Awesome. Yeah, that was really fun. I do have one other thing about this week, but I'm going to save it for the last segment. For now, I want to hear about you all, what's going on in your world.

Laura

Well, the big highlight or maybe low light, depending on who you ask of this week, was that I finally got the boys in for their two and four year checkups with their pediatricians. Good, good. Those are important. They are important. They got scheduled a little late because, you know, bureaucracy basically at the pediatricians office. But we finally got them in, you know, August is almost two months late and Sebastian's a month late, but I I guess it doesn't matter as much when they get older, right?

Shanna

I don't think it does. We're rarely on time. So yeah, once they're like two plus.

Laura

Yeah, because I have this mentality of like, they're two week checkup, they're four week checkup. You know, you go so often at the beginning that it seems like, wait, but they're, he's two in two months. Like, is it so valid? Exactly. But anyway, something we did differently this year was I actually took them separately to these appointments. Oh, smart, smart. I'm glad you think it's smart. My mom was like, why are you doing that? Why not just bring them together? But we did that last year, Shanna. And i don't recommend it if you can avoid it like if you have the flexibility to take the time off from your work or whatever you're doing to take the kids separately i have to say it was a much better experience because you know you're dealing with nerves and being in a different environment and all that stuff and maybe like.

Shanna

Oh, right. He's been anxious about shots lately.

Laura

very. And when he had to get his COVID booster, he spent all day anxious about it and like wouldn't come to me and cried the whole drive in the car. And, you know, it's been a thing. And he hasn't built up in his mind is this big bad thing, which I think is very common for young kids and adults, to be honest. Like, I know a lot of adults who don't like getting shots. But the problem was I had no idea. Like, I legitimately didn't know if he was going to get shots because I feel like at this age, it's very hit and miss like where you are on the schedule. Yeah. You know, because for instance, Sebastian did not need to get any shots.

Shanna

Right.

Laura

Like he got off scot-free. So I was like, honestly, baby, I don't know. I would call the doctor and ask, but they're so swamped and overwhelmed that I'm not going to hear back. I'm like, we're just going to have to find out tomorrow. You know, we're going to have to find out.

Shanna

That's too bad. You know, I recently took CeCe to her four-year visit and when I was making the appointment, I remember the appointment scheduler was like, and this will be an appointment with two shots. Like they told me. That's smart. When I scheduled. And I was just kind of like, oh, OK, interesting. But now that I think about it, that that is so smart because you might want to strategize what time of day or what day of the week you get that appointment or, you know, repairing your child ahead of time. Like there's so much there's It's a really smart choice so I'm sorry you didn't have that knowledge ahead of time.

Laura

I know I know but you know in the end it worked out okay he was nervous and when we got there. The nurse said it you are gonna get two shots today and he managed to keep it together throughout the appointment like. He let the doctor look at his ears and do all that stuff and he was okay. He did okay good The one clutch move that I I did was I pocketed a bunch of dum-dums from our stash of lollipops before we left the house Yes, and I told him that and I was like I showed him in my pocket I was like Augie look I have a bunch of lollipops for after your shot So you don't have to worry you get to choose a flavor and that really motivated him to Not be too upset so

Shanna

Yeah, our doctor's office offered CECE, like, a Paw Patrol sticker. And in my mind, I was like, that's not cool. Like, that's not enough.

Laura

Yeah, I mean, we also got a Paw Patrol sticker, but yeah, that wasn't going to sustain him.

Shanna

That was a surprise to you. Usually that's very obvious. You'd think, Aki, are your ears hurting?

Laura

No. Aki, is anything bothering you? No. Just like literally zero complaints about it. Except, he's asked a few times if we could turn the TV up. That's it. And we were like, it's kind of loud already. And he'd be like, I can't hear it. Wow. That is it. But the doctor was like, yeah, normally I like to wait and see with your infections, but these are pretty bad. I'm going to give you a moxa cell. Wow. So we're on a 10-day course of a moxicillin right now.

Shanna

Okay, well, good that they caught it. Yes, yes. What about Sebastian? How did his appointment go?

Laura

So his appointment went well. The doctor was very impressed with him in general. And like, you know, I've talked about how I'm a little worried about his speech, but the doctor is not worried at all. I've revived my spreadsheet. My spreadsheet is, I don't know, probably like 100 to 120 words and phrases that I've collected of his. And she was like, psh. She's like, that's fine. But I'm like, but the average child at two, according to all the reading I've done has 200 words. She's like, yeah, that's fine. She's basically, she's like, stop, stop being, stop being you. Stop being, stop comparing against your first child. Like he's doing fine. His development's great. She watched him like run full speed across the room. It was very cute.

Shanna

Oh, that's so cute.

Laura

He's doing well. So I had no complaints there, no ear infection there either. I was like bracing because his appointment was second. And Corey was just like, should we just ask her for antibiotics right off the bat? Because they've been sharing all their viruses and everything. Oh, right. But no, he has one ear that was slightly inflamed, but she said it was fine.

Virginia Sole-Smith

Oh, good.

Laura

So no surprise ear infections there. And yeah. they're both doing really well. So the only thing is like, we don't really know how tall he is because he was wiggling when we tried to measure him lying down and he was slouching when he was standing up and neither of the measurements satisfied my doctor. And she's like, it doesn't matter. He's fine. Yeah.

Shanna

I feel like I remember a similar thing happening when CeCe was around that age. Like they measured her so many different ways and stuff and they're just like, It seems like she's shrunk, but maybe we're measuring wrong and they're just like, yeah, whatever, we'll check it next time. So maybe that's like a two-year-old thing.

Laura

Yeah, maybe. I mean, yeah, because they're like, he's either ninth or 20th percentile. We don't know. I'm like, okay, whatever. I'll worry about this if it's something to worry about. So yeah, we are all checked up and Just otherwise having a pretty normal week sounds good.

Shanna

Shall we move on to our special segment which is so special this week? It's so good. Yes, let's do it

Virginia Sole-Smith

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited.

Laura

Yay. Okay, we're gonna get started because we have so many questions for you. I'm just such a huge fan of your work. I follow your sub-stack newsletter. I listen to your podcast, Burnt Toast, and I've read both of your books now. I was so excited to get to interview you because that meant I got an advance copy of Fat Talk, and I was like devouring it. So I first found your work when my son, Augie, who's now four, about two years ago, he started becoming a very picky eater. And I was lamenting about this to some friends and my friend, Kristen, who has a child who needed a feeding tube for a few years, recommended your book, The Eating Instinct, to give me some perspective on what I thought was sort of catastrophic picky eating from Augie. And reading your book was such a revelation. And I just thought it was so useful.

Virginia Sole-Smith

Yeah, absolutely. And I love hearing that the eating instinct was helpful for you in that way. So my career has always been as a health journalist for about 20 years. I've been doing health and nutrition reporting. And for the first decade, I was doing it mostly for women's magazines, which meant I was an active participant in diet culture. I wrote a lot of stories about the, quote, right way to eat, good foods and bad foods, portion control. et cetera, et cetera, all the while feeling very conflicted about that work. Kind of always trying to soften it or make compromises or find ways where I was like, I'm not telling people to die. I'm just giving them a lifestyle plan and that sort of thing, which I'm sure will sound sort of familiar to lots of folks.

Shanna

Wonderful. Thank you. So in your new book, Fat Talk, you talk about how diet culture affects our experiences as parents. But before we get too into the weeds, I think some of our listeners might be confused about what diet culture is and how it's harmful. So I'm wondering if you could speak to that and talk a little bit about why we shouldn't be encouraging weight loss in our kids.

Virginia Sole-Smith

Yeah, definitely. Those are great questions. So diet culture is a whole system of beliefs that teaches us fundamentally that the best bodies, the healthiest bodies, the most beautiful bodies are thin bodies and that the ways in which we feed ourselves and move our bodies should always be with an eye towards what we'll preserve or achieve thinness. And so Diet culture is definitely like the women's magazine version I just talked about. It's influencers on social media. But it's also often showing up at your doctor's office when there's a big focus on weight and that sort of clouds out any other conversation around health. It's showing up in schools when they do track your food log sorts of assignments with ninth graders, which teach kids to count calories and be really obsessive about everything they're eating. And it also shows up in this very casual offhand way.

Laura

It was awful. I think we're all approximately the same age, elder millennials, you know, like 70s to 80s kids. And yes. Oof. Was it a tough time?

Virginia Sole-Smith

It was a time. It was a time to be alive for sure.

Shanna

Right.

Virginia Sole-Smith

And there's nothing wrong with that. Their kids aren't doing anything wrong. Kids are eating in a way that's totally developmentally normal and healthy and going to promote growth. But because our expectations of what feeding a family should look like are so saturated with diet culture, we end up in this position where we are feeling like we need to micromanage and control how our kids eat and try to get them to be these super eclectic, kale-loving toddlers that eat all of these different things when they're like, can I just have mac and cheese, please? That mismatch is so stressful for parents. And when you really drill down into what's going on there, a lot of that mismatch is driven by the fact that parents are really scared to raise a kid in a bigger body.

Laura

Can I just ask though, I feel like there's still a lot of parents who say, you know, in their mind because this is how we've all been taught is that, but isn't fat a thing to fear, right? Like, shouldn't that be? Isn't that a reasonable thing we should be afraid of? How would you respond to that?

Virginia Sole-Smith

It's not something to be afraid of. It's not a bad way to have a body. It's one of the many ways to have a body in the world and it's nothing to fear. But our culture has taught you otherwise since you were really little kids. So it completely makes sense that that's your knee jerk place to be with that. So I say that without any judgment. But what we know from the research is, you know, to go back to Shannon's question about why it's not a good idea to try to have kids lose weight, we know that the number one predictor for future eating disorder risk is childhood dieting and weight-based shaming or teasing. And that is both like sending a kid to a Weight Watchers meeting or bullies on the playground calling you terrible names about your body.

Laura

I think that's so important. We're recording this episode for people who are listening in a couple of weeks in the future. The day after the Oscars.

Virginia Sole-Smith

Yeah.

Laura

When Brendan Fraser won Best Actor for The Whale. And like, I don't know about you, Virginia, but when that happened last night, it was like a gut punch for me. Same. Because it just showed how just how fatphobic we still are and how it's still a celebrated thing to view fat people as other. And I think it's the work you're doing in trying to promote this, you know, fat acceptance and understanding that eating disorders are more dangerous is so important.

Virginia Sole-Smith

Yeah.

Laura

So I really appreciate that. So one thing, you mentioned how a lot of, you know, like eating disorders can be, you know, the seeds can be planted at doctors' offices. And you also talk a lot in the book about how doctors are just as or more steeped in diet culture than the general public. And as the daughter of doctors, I can confirm this is true.

Virginia Sole-Smith

Yup, it's happening.

Laura

I have a lot of firsthand experience of this and I know a lot of our listeners are pregnant or they have really young babies and the weight talk is kind of endless in those stages, right? You experience a lot of weight talk from your OBs or your pediatricians. So I was wondering if you had any advice about how parents can navigate a medical system that's so obsessed with weight?

Virginia Sole-Smith

Yeah. Oh, it's brutal during pregnancy. It really is. I mean, it's brutal at a lot of stages, but that's a particularly extra brutal place, particularly if you're starting out in a fat body, right? I mean, there's research showing like there's all these assumptions that doctors make when they're supporting a fat person through their pregnancy that they don't make when they're supporting a thin person through their pregnancy. And so it just feels like the stack is stacked against you. I mean a couple of things that can be useful regardless of your body size is be very upfront with your OB to the degree it feels safe and possible. about how triggering weight talk is for you. Be very upfront about the fact that you are really focused on having a healthy pregnancy, and for you a healthy pregnancy means not spiraling and obsessing about what you eat.

Shanna

Right. Right. So important. And what about navigating the medical system with your children? People have the option to opt out of weighing their children or talking to their doctors about weight in front of their children. What would you say to that?

Virginia Sole-Smith

So this one just got a lot more complicated because in January the American Academy of Pediatrics issued a set of clinical practice guidelines for the treatment of childhood obesity which explicitly instruct doctors to do things like if a child has a high BMI starting at the age of two to refer them for intensive lifestyle and behavior treatment programs which are otherwise known as diets for toddlers. And then starting at age 12 to consider prescribing weight loss drugs and 13 to refer for bariatric surgery. So if you are parenting a kid in a bigger body, this is a really scary and stressful landscape right now. And you still have to give informed consent for any of that to happen and you don't have to give it. So that's the really important thing for parents to hold on to is that you still have the absolute right to say, no, we're not going to do that. That doesn't feel safe.

Shanna

Oh, absolutely. That's such good advice. Thank you.

Laura

OK, so this is the point where it was midway through our interview, and I realized it was getting very long. And so we are actually going to insert a break here, right, Shanna?

Shanna

Yes, yes, I think we should.

Laura

And we're going to turn this into a two-episode interview because Virginia has so much amazing stuff to say, and we just don't want to shortchange her and shortchange you on all the amazing stuff she's talking about. So we're going to take a break here, do our BFPs and BFNs, and then you can hear the rest of this interview on the next episode.

Shanna

But before we move on, I want to make sure Virginia has a chance to tell you all where you can find her.

Virginia Sole-Smith

Yes. So the book is coming out April 25th. And everywhere you get books, so you can pre-order it from Amazon, from your independent bookstore, all of the places. The audiobook is available for pre-order at Audible and Libro FM and all of the audiobook places. You can also follow Burt Toast the newsletter at virginiasoulsmith.substack.com and get the Burt Toast podcast anywhere you get your podcasts. And I am on Instagram, Twitter, and be grudgingly TikTok at the underscore soul Smith. So find me all those places.

Shanna

Fantastic. And again, the title of your new book is Fat Talk, Parenting in the Age of Diet Culture. Listeners, pre-order this book. Laura and I have both read it. It is fantastic.

Virginia Sole-Smith

Thank you so much.

Laura

Okay, we are back and we close every episode with a Big Fat Positive or a big fat negative of the week. So, Shanna, got to know, do you have a BFP or a BFN?

Shanna

I have a BFP. Oh, good. So as you know, Elle has been playing basketball for the last couple of months, and she didn't have a game this Saturday, and the coach was like, hey, I have an idea. Instead of our game, does anybody want to go watch a UCLA women's basketball game? And I was like, yes, that sounds really fun. I love going to sporting events. It's not something I do at all anymore, but I love it. It's nostalgic to me for my childhood of going to sporting events and getting concessions. I just love it. So I was really excited about this. And it was cool because it was the girls first time on a college campus. So we went to UCLA, which is beautiful. I just love that campus so much. It was raining and it was just like a fun adventure to and walk through the campus and find the stadium and find our seats. And we went with our friends.

Laura

That's super fun. Oh my God.

Shanna

Um, CECE and I were dancing and we got up there and then, uh, Elle and her friends were dancing around at one point and they got up there. So we were like, oh my God, like freaking out. So excited about it. Elle and her little basketball friends got to go down where the basketball players like exit their locker room and run onto the court. They got to go down there and like high five them as they came, you know, back out from halftime. So they got, High fives from the women. They got autographs from a couple of them afterwards. I don't know. It was just like super fun. I don't know what else to say about it. It was just a really, really great time.

Laura

And Steve went with you guys too? Yeah. Mm-hmm. That is just like a fun family outing. That's just like classic family outing. It's so funny you mentioned that it's like nostalgic from your childhood. I think I went to a single professional sporting or even like college sporting event until I was an adult. Really? It was just not what we did in my family.

Shanna

Yeah, you didn't have a sporty family. I would say sports was like one of the most important things in my family up until I discovered theater as like a teenager.

Laura

Yeah, yeah. But so like for me, it makes me think of like my pre-kid days when Corey like split Lakers season passes with a couple people, you know, they did a ticket share or whatever. So we would go a lot and like I love it, but it doesn't have like that kind of nostalgia like for my kids. But it does make me want to bring at least Augie to some kind of sports event.

Shanna

Mm-hmm.

Laura

We actually went to a sports event this week, too. On Sunday, we went to the LAFC, the Los Angeles football club soccer game.

Shanna

A little soccer up in here.

Laura

Yeah. One of my mom friends is a season pass holder and they had extra tickets and they were like, you want to come with us? And so we got a babysitter.

Shanna

Oh, smart.

Laura

I asked her, I was like, could the kids come? And she's like, well, our kids come sometimes. But if you want to enjoy yourself, you might want to bring them.

Shanna

No, I don't think I've ever been to a professional soccer game ever.

Laura

So I had low expectations because I'm not a huge soccer fan. And, you know, it's fine. Like I watched Ted Lasso, you know, but like, you know, they score goals here and there. And I was just like, it'll be fun to hang out with my friend and drink beer or whatever. But what I didn't know is that at least in this stadium, there is like a whole section, like a quarter of the stadium that's like the supporter section. And they literally chant and sing and play drums the entire match. Wow. It's intense. But it makes it so fun because it's like, oh my gosh, these people are into it, you know, and like you can't feel bored just with their energy.

Shanna

Yeah. That's really cool. The highlight of the basketball game, at least for the girls, were the snacks. I mean, they had their popcorn. They had their little dibs. Is that what they're called? Or nibs? I don't know. Like ice cream nuggets. And they had a great time. And CeCe enjoyed it too. I was really worried about her being engaged with it. In looking through the information on the team, on the website before we left, I noticed that one of the players has the same nickname as CeCe does in real life. It sounds like, oh my gosh, this player has the same name as you. And she's number one, which is CeCe's number in softball. CeCe just got into this a big time. Like she was so excited. The whole game she was cheering for this player. We were like really keeping an eye on her and Elle was getting into it. And she's a really good player. She's like one of the highest scores on the team.

Laura

Well, this is inspiring me to try to take Augie to some kind of sporting event because I actually think he'd love it.

Shanna

The nice thing about going to a college sporting event is it's not as just busy and wild as like a professional game. You know, it was not all that crowded and you know, it was general mission. We all kind of got to sit together and be pretty close and everything. So I thought that was a nice entry way into going to live sports for us.

Laura

Yeah, absolutely. Like I wonder if like high school sports, you know, would be a good way to do it too.

Shanna

Oh yeah, definitely. We have a huge high school near us. Going to a football game or something would be really fun. Yeah. So yeah, that was our fun little event for the week. What about you? Do you have a BFP or a BFN? I have a BFP. Okay. What is it?

Laura

Okay. My BFP is something I did for myself. I decided to take my own advice and do some self-care. So after Augie's doctor's appointment on Wednesday, I dropped him off at school a little bit late. His appointment was like 8.40 and then his school starts at 8.30. So like I dropped him off late and then I was about to drive home and just start working. But I realized I had like all this stress in my body because you know he was really upset and nervous about the shots and just trying to get to the appointment on time and all that stuff, right? That I was like, you know what? I need to do something for me. And as I was driving away from Augie's school, I looked up and I saw that the rain clouds had cleared and the mountains outside of Los Angeles were just still totally covered in snow. We talked about this on the last episode, but it was just absolutely gorgeous. Even more snow, right?

Shanna

I'm sorry, did you say In-N-Out? Yes. I like how you just slipped that in there. Like, I'm going to Discanso, but there's In-N-Out.

Laura

Yeah, I should mention that In-N-Out is on the way, and it was like 10.25, and I was like, ooh, I need to eat something, though. What am I going to do? And I was like, oh, In-N-Out's right there. They opened at 10.30, so I literally went and sat in their parking lot until 10.29, and then pulled through their drive-through. Got myself a double double and well done fries and then drove up to Discanso eat my burger in the car. And then went on like an impromptu hike by myself through the gardens. Oh, nice.

Shanna

And so great.

Laura

I'm always there with a kid and usually with a big like wagon stroller. And I realized I'd never been there like without a stroller basically. And it freed me up to go to all these like little areas I had never been, including being able to hike all the way up this back hill, which had all these little like narrow hiking trails I of course never saw because I always had a stroller. And I was able to hike all the way up to the top. And I got the most beautiful view of the mountains and the snow. There was a bench I sat on and I just like literally sat there quietly for 10 minutes just staring off the mountains and the snow and just like taking And on my way back down, it started actually not snowing, not hailing, but groppling. Do you know about groppling?

Shanna

I remember that. Yeah, I was watching that outside the window of my office.

Laura

Yeah. So I got to, like, experience gropple at Descanso, and it was just, like, magical, like, in a way. And I cannot recommend it more. I just have to say that I was really skeptical about what I was doing and kind of feeling like, oh, I'm wasting time. I have all this stuff to do. But I was like, no, do something for yourself. And I did it and I have zero regrets and I'm so happy I did. I know I sent you a photo when I was there, though. Yes, beautiful. because of course, like I had to share. But we'll post a picture to the website. It was just like so gorgeous. So if you need a sign that you should do something to take some time for yourself, this is it friends. Even if it's just like playing hooky and running off. And I was only there. I think it was like an hour, you know, and it could have been less time if I had less time. So yeah, but self care, man, it does things to you.

Shanna

No recollection. I mean, it sounds familiar now that you say it.

Laura

It was your challenge. You were supposed to go do something that was like a little bit outside of your comfort zone and you're like, well, I better bring Laura with me. So we went to the sound bath and we were both super skeptical. And then like we left and we were just like, oh my God, that was amazing. Amazing. And I started going more like regularly at the time and I remember like I used to walk to them and I would walk back and I'd feel like I was like floating, walking back. So yeah, it did feel better. Thank you for asking.

Shanna

Awesome. I'm so glad that you did that. Gosh, spontaneously taking care of yourself. I just love it. I'm inspired. I'm going to do something in honor of you and what you did for yourself.

Laura

Good, you should.

Shanna

And it'll probably involve Taco Bell or anything.

Shanna

Yeah, I mean you don't have to go through a drive-thru to do it, but I do recommend It does add to the experience Absolutely All right Well, I think that wraps up our episode Listeners be sure to tune in next week to hear the rest of our interview with the amazing Virginia soul Smith and reminder her new book fat talk comes out on April 25th So be sure to pre-order that now But before we sign off, I do have a new five-star review to read. This is from LWSC on Apple Podcasts. The title of the review is Absolutely Adore This Podcast, Five Stars. I absolutely adore Shanna, Laura, and this podcast. I can't tell you how many times I've been rolling on the floor laughing as I listened. Laura and Shanna are so relatable, and I feel like they're right alongside me on my pregnancy journey. They encourage me, lift me up, keep it real, and make me laugh cry.

Laura

We are on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok at BFPpodcast. We have a website, bigfatpositivepodcast.com. You can always send us an email and throw a voice memo in there if you want to contact at bigfatpositivepodcast.com. And finally, if you want to join the coolest group of people on the internet, just search Facebook for Big Fat Positive Community. It's a private group, so you have to request a join, answer the two membership questions, and then you'll get sent straight through to all the really wonderful and insightful conversations we're having in there.

Shanna

Our show is produced by Laura Birek, Shanna Micko, and Steve Yager. Thanks so much for listening, everyone. Have a big, fat, positive week. Bye. Bye.