Ep. 246 – Wild and Wonderful 4-Year-Olds
March 20, 2023
Listen Now:
In the special segment “The Said What?!,” Laura and Shanna share the funny and shocking parenting-related things that people have said to them recently, including a preschool guilt trip, a musical mix up and more! Also, Shanna talks about getting a window into her four-year-old’s inner life, and Laura reports on a kids’ art project gone awry. Finally, they share their BFPs and BFNs for the week. Shanna’s kids are 4 and 7 years old, and Laura’s kids are 4 years old and 2 years old.
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This episode’s show notes can be found here.
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Big Fat Positive: A Pregnancy and Parenting Journey is produced by Laura Birek, Shanna Micko and Steve Yager.
Show Notes:
- Characteristics of the Four-Year-Old from Center for Parenting Education
- Your Four-Year-Old: Wild and Wonderful by Louise Bates Ames
- For Goodness Cakes The non-profit that Shanna volunteers for baking birthday cakes for children in foster care and other underprivileged youth.
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Episode Transcript
Laura
Welcome to Big Fat Positive with Shanna and Laura. This week, we have our weekly check-ins. We have our special segment. They said, what? Will we hear some comments about preschool pressure and musical mashups? And we close with our BFPs and BFNs for the week. Let's get started. Hi, everyone. Welcome to the show. This is episode 246. Hi, Shanna. Hello. Let's get right to it.
Shanna
I want to hear all about your week. OK. Well, last week I left off with a report that CECE's first softball game went terribly, right? Yes. Yes. She was physically present at the game. She played half an inning in left field and then was just done and had meltdowns and whatever. So I was left with this thought of like, oh my gosh, maybe I should get a refund for this season because, you know, it's a good amount of money and it's going to be miserable for me to like force her to do this all season and it's not going to be good for anybody. So I've been mauling that over all week. And in doing so, I came across a post from centerforparentingeducation.org. And what it is is outlining characteristics of children at every age from like one to eight or something like that. And they're based on the work of Louise Bates Ames, PhD from the Giselle Institute of Human Development.
And she's got books on like every age. So there's actually a whole book called Your Four Year Old.
Laura
Oh, I've heard of these books. I remember. Yeah. Well, yeah, because all I know about them is that they all have really funny subtitles, or at least the three-year-old. Wasn't it like your three-year-old friend or foe or friend or enemy or something like that?
Shanna
Well, maybe I have the four-year-old one pulled up in front of me, and it's your four-year-old, wild and wonderful.
Laura
Okay, let me look up the three-year-old one real quick. Okay. Oh, yeah, I was so close. Your three-year-old friend or enemy?
Shanna
Oh, that's bringing me back. That's bringing me back.
Laura
I think I saw that. This goes back to my gripe recently where I was like, I hate when people tell you, just wait. I think when Augie was two, someone posted a picture of that, like the book title. And I was like, why are they saying your three-year-old is an enemy? Like what? And I was just so worried.
Shanna
Just wait, Laura. It'll get worse. So this post I found kind of sums up the stuff in the book. I actually went and put in a request to check out the book from the library. I haven't gotten it yet. But the post itself was helpful for me. It talks about some descriptors of four-year-olds in general, right? This is obviously kind of in general. I'm sure it's mostly describing neurotypical kids, okay? So I'm just putting that out there. Here's what it says about four-year-olds. They're often expansive, boasting, joyous, exuberant, adventuresome, and energetic, bossy, enthusiastic. And I was like, yeah, that makes sense. I'm seeing those sides of her more now.
Laura
What about you with Augie? Oh yeah, yeah, his boasting is really interesting and I love it. I totally encourage it. Like this morning he came out to me and he goes, I'm very creative. Like, yes, you are, sweetie. Yes, you are.
Shanna
Oh, I love that so much. So here are a couple of bullet points from that that resonated with me and this softball situation. So one of the things I said about four-year-olds is they love anything new. They love adventures. They love to experiment. And I'm like, oh, OK, I could see how excited she was to try something new, the softball, right? Like, oh, it's something she's never done before playing a softball game and be on a team. And then here's the second bullet point, is less interested in fully completing something as beginning it and moving on quickly to the next thing. And I was like, oh, yeah. Like she did not care about finishing that. It was new, exciting. She wanted to try it, start it, and then she was done, right? Put a pin in that for my check in. Oh, interesting. So I've got all of this going on in my mind. I'm like, okay, maybe this just isn't for her because of her age.
You know, I was thinking maybe it's a personality problem, right? You know, all this stuff going on in the meltdowns and stuff. And I'm like, well, maybe it's just her age and maybe we will get that refund and just move on and do it next season. Well then, one day this week, me and Steven Cici are sitting around outside and she's very pensive. Like she gets kind of quiet and thoughtful and she turns to Steve and she said, how did I do in the softball game? And I was like, oh my gosh. Like, wow, she's really thinking about that. It didn't occur to me that that's something she would be reflective on, right? And be curious about And so me and Steve share a glance like, oh, that's interesting and kind of out of nowhere. And he's like, well, honey, what you did do, you did well.
You stayed out in left field, you know, for that whole inning, you stayed in your place, you were paying attention, and you didn't really play anymore of the game. So there was no chance for us to see how really well you did because you didn't finish. And she's like, oh, OK. And so then I'm like, well, I don't know. Maybe I should give her a chance. Maybe I shouldn't just pull the rug out from under her because she had one bad experience with it, right? And just write it off as her being an immature four-year-old. She's showing some thoughtfulness there. So I decided to take a new approach to this. And later that week, I was like, hey, CECE, let's talk about what's going to happen at Sunday's game. Do you want to play? And she's like, oh, yes, yes, definitely want to play. I'm like, okay. When you play softball, you stay in the whole game and the innings change.
At one point, you're going to be out in the field and then you're going to come in to the dugout and you're going to wait your turn to bat. And she's like, oh, and when I'm not batting, I'm in the cheering squad, which is what we call it when the girls aren't batting, they stay in the dugout and cheer. And I was like, yes, that's what you're going to do. And then you're going to switch. and you're gonna go to the field. And I was like, literally explaining every step of the way. And I was like, I never did that to her before. She didn't know what she was supposed to do. Like no one explained the expectation. So we talked about it and she's like, okay. And then she's like, I'm gonna play the whole game. And when I do, I'm gonna get my snack. These kids are very motivated by post-game snacks. Very motivated. I was like, that's right. You get your snack for playing the whole game.
Sunday came, Laura. CeCe played the entire game. She stayed in her position out in the field. She went up to bat every time she did her cheering squad. She got her snack at the end of the game, and it felt like a huge success.
Laura
Wow, that was some parenting you did right there.
Shanna
Oh, thank you. Yeah, I guess it was. That's what being a parent is about, huh?
Laura
Trying to figure out problems. Well, not just that, you realized what the problem was, right? It's so easy to just write that off as her age or her personality and just be like, it's not time to do it. But then you were actively observing her and listening to what she said and realizing that you hadn't given her the tools she needed to do the thing. And so it wasn't just some inherent personality problem. It wasn't some inherent problem due to her age. She just didn't have the tools. And then you gave them to her and she did the thing. Like, wow. I mean, top to bottom, that's some like gold star parenting shit right there.
Shanna
Oh, thank you. Thank you. That that feels really good to hear because I really do feel so happy about it. Like that game, just the whole experience of this game was so positive. Like last week's was very stressful, right? You know, I didn't have my voice and she was melting down and I was like, oh my gosh, what are we in for this season? Like, why did I do this and really beating myself up? And this was such a turnaround. And I felt really proud for giving her a chance. instead of just saying, no, you're not ready for this, you know, really giving her a chance to prove herself. And let me tell you, she was so proud of herself. I mean, it really boosted her confidence, I think, to know that she could do it. And I don't know, it just felt really good.
Laura
I find it so interesting how she was thinking about it. Like, this is something I'm having trouble sort of remembering with Augie is that he's sort of developing this inner life, you know? And he will do the same thing. I don't have like an example off the top of my head right now, but he will come to me and like talk about things that happened and like want to go over them and I'll be like, I thought that was like long gone. Like I thought that you had moved on, you know. But yeah, I mean, they're growing and evolving and it's so hard to remember. They're not just these little babies who have thoughts in and out of their brain in two seconds, you know.
Shanna
Yes, I really still was kind of holding on to that assumption that thoughts and memories just kind of roll off their back like like water off of a duck right it's like all that doesn't stick. But it's interesting to hear you say that August doing something similar like really in the last few months CECE has been. talking about memories from back when she was like two and three and bringing stuff up from her past. Like she talks about her old preschool a lot and past birthdays and trips to the beach. And I'm just like, oh wow, you're, you've got a memory. How about that? It's cool to see. I love it. She's just becoming more and more complex. And as a result, more lovable. It's cool. They're so interesting.
Laura
They're just so interesting. What was the subtitle again? Wild and wonderful. Wild and wonderful.
Shanna
It tracks so far. It really does.
Laura
Well, awesome. So you get to keep your softball mom crown on, right? Do they give you crowns?
Shanna
Could you even imagine if I wore a crown to these games? I think it's more like a visor.
Laura
I'm going to put a little crown. I'm going to get my cricket and cut out a little crown decal to put on your visor. Oh my gosh. Thank you, Laura. That'd be the queen of softball moms.
Shanna
Oh, thank you. So that's the big development this week. Let's move on to you. What's going on with y'all?
Laura
Well, I recognize that this episode is coming out in the future, but this week, I just wanted to talk about how it was Valentine's week. And what that meant for my two little boys. Okay. So if you recall, I said to put a pin in the thought of a four-year-old liking to try new things, but not liking to complete them. Yes. Okay. So this week, The night before Valentine's, I realized I didn't have any actual Valentine's to send my kids to school with. I realized it a couple days prior, but when I went to Target on that day to just pick up a pack of Valentine's, which was my big plan, there were no Valentine's that didn't have candy attached and we weren't allowed to send candy. So I was like, well fuck, what am I gonna do? I guess I have to make some.
The next couple days thing you like oh I can make these elaborate ones on my cricket and then I was like no no no you don't have time you don't have time. So I finally came to the conclusion that I could involve the boys which honestly they should be involved anyway because these are cards they're giving out. Right. And I thought I will do a really, really, really, really simple craft art craft card thing with watercolors for Valentine's. So on February 13th at 4 p.m. I decided to set this up because what better time than the night before the Valentine's?
Shanna
4pm in the evening is just such a great time to do anything with little kids.
Laura
Truly. I mean, it's not like they're tired and hungry and just want to watch TV at that point while they're waiting for dinner. But it was the only time we could do it unless I wanted to do them by myself. And I suddenly got to be in my bonnet that I was like, no, I'm not going to be that mom that stays up late crafting handmade cards for their kids to send to school. They have to be involved. So I love it. I took some pieces of white cardstock and I took some masking tape and I took four pieces of paper. They both have, they had between 18 and 24 kids in their class, right? For each of them. So I took four pieces of cardstock and set them all up together. And with masking tape, gridded them off to make 24 little cards. Like, you know, three inches by two inches or something. What do you mean?
Shanna
Did you tape them down to a table? Yeah.
Laura
So I taped them down to the table. So it looked like it was one big sheet of paper and then like vertically, you know, made like a grid out of cardstock. And then what I did is I took a white crayon and just quickly went over and drew hearts in all of the little squares. OK. And as I'm sure you know, when you draw with white crayon or any crayon, but the white makes it invisible, the wax in the crayon acts as a resist. And if you watercolor over it, everything gets stained the color except for where you drew, right? Cute idea. I'm loving this. I actually got the idea from a creator on TikTok named Andrea Nelson. She goes by Andrea dot Nelson dot art. And she does. Oh my gosh, she's so fun to follow. Shanna, I think you should follow her if you don't already. She's an art teacher, I think.
And she has a neurodivergent son and she so she does like all these different art projects that like kids of all skill levels can do. And she'll sort of open it up like here's something that, you know, your toddler can do or here's something that like an older kid can do. And she does all these like easy watercolors. It's really fun. And she's really sweet and like just has that teacher vibe, you know, like friendly preschool teacher. So I really like her.
Shanna
Yeah.
Laura
So I got this idea from her. So here, let me send you a picture. So I gridded these off and I brought out the watercolors and I told the boys they had to sit down and just start painting.
Shanna
Okay, so their role in this is to apply the watercolor paint.
Laura
Exactly. And basically any way they want, right?
Shanna
There's no rules about it. Cool. Oh, this looks like a fun project. I want to get my hands dirty with this one. You've got your grid on the table, a big palette of beautiful watercolor paints. Sebastian is all up in it. He's painting that thing pink. Here's another picture of Augie getting started with his paint. Okay, that looks super fun.
Laura
That's what I would say, because I love our projects. I was like, I would kill for someone to set this shit up for me, right? Right?
As you mentioned Sebastian was so into it he is an art kid like he loves sitting and drawing. I think I sent you a picture from before else birthday party where like I had them sit down with a roll of craft paper and had them try to like design the wrapping paper for her presence.
Shanna
Yes.
Laura
And he like spent probably like 15 minutes just scribbling all over the page and made like a really dense art piece for the present. And Augie like did two swipes and that was it because Augie, who is my four year old, my wild and wonderful four year old, he was into this project for like the first 30 seconds.
Shanna
30 seconds? That's it?
Laura
If you see that picture where he's sitting there starting to paint, that's about all he painted. There's a few little scribbles. Oh no. He does not like being told what to do. And I was telling him he had to do this and he did not want to do it. So he started having a meltdown like 30 seconds in and I just gave up and was like, fine, I'll just finish them.
Shanna
Yeah.
Laura
And it's so funny because when you were talking about this article you were reading and all the stuff that you did with CeCe, I'm now realizing like I sprung a random project on him last minute at a terrible time of day and expected him to just do it. Right. That was on me. You know, like, that is not how you set a four-year-old up for success, especially one who doesn't, like, naturally ask to do art projects ever. You know, like, Sebastian will be like, art, art. And he'll, like, go to his chair. And I'll be like, do you want to do art? He's like, yeah, yeah. And he'll sit there. He really likes it. Aw, he's never been like that. Like, he's never been super interested in art. He'll sit in color kind of for a little bit. But that's not his jam, you know? His jam is building these days. And that's his art.
Can I send you a picture of something that really impressed me that he built last week?
Shanna
Yeah. OK. Ooh. He built some kind of laser shooter gun thing out of dooblo's. That is cool.
Laura
I mean, that is 100% on his own, right? First of all, of course, the only thing he wants to build are, quote unquote, blasters. Those are the Star Wars blaster. He's dressed as a stormtrooper in the photo too. I'm not a fan of guns. I don't like guns. I tell him that a lot. And so all he wants to build are blasters. So that is the life I'm leading. But yeah, so that's where he puts his creativity, not in the visual arts. And yeah, I learned a lesson this week, but I will say I did end up just finishing them. And it was fun for me and took like five minutes.
Shanna
Good. Well, I'm glad it wasn't super laborious for you. Like you were able to do it and have a good time at least.
Laura
Yeah. I will say that the next day I ended up with some mom guilt though, because my kids came home with so much stuff. Like so much crap. I sent them with this one little rinky dink handmade watercolor card and they came home with so much loot. I could not believe it.
Shanna
I feel like I did this as a gripe water last year. Maybe before your kids were in school. I can't remember, but I was just like, what the heck? They get so much stuff.
Laura
Found time today. So much stuff. Augie got a hot wheel. He got a sand shovel for some reason. It was like, I dig you. Uh-huh. There were sweets, which we weren't supposed to send according to the teachers, but he still got them. I don't mind, because obviously my kids eat sugar.
But yeah, I felt like, oh, shit, these other parents put all this effort in and made goodie bags and stuff. And then they're like, oh, great, Augie's mom's sending a shitty watercolor card.
Shanna
Or they're like, oh, I wish I could allow myself to just send a card. But I'm succumbing to the pressure of being a perfect parent and sending all this stuff. I don't know. I am like resisting giving in to all of that. I sent the girls with just a card only and I fully knew that they would be coming home with a lot of stuff and they did. So I don't know. I don't have any mom guilt about it at least. That's good. I hope you can give that up too.
Laura
Oh, yeah, because I'm not doing it. I refuse. I'm not doing it. If they're older and they ask to do it, I'll do it for them. But I'm not. I'm not. I'm not buying into the Valentine's industrial complex, Shanna.
Shanna
Don't do it. All the stuff they came home with, they were interested for four minutes. It's like either garbage now or just like cluttering up my house. They don't care about it.
Laura
Yeah.
Shanna
It's exciting for a few minutes. But no, in the end, I don't think it's worth it.
Laura
Okay, I'm glad that you don't buy into that either because I was appalled. Not because I didn't think it was cute and fun. I was just like, I don't want to do this.
Shanna
I don't want to do it. I know. Well, ask me how I feel next year because my kids will be older and they might be begging me to do that stuff. So I'm flexible. If they really, really wanted, I might go for it. But for now, eh.
Laura
Yeah. As long as they actually help, I'm fine. Like if he really wants to help me with it, he can do it. There you go. But anyway, that's it for me. Just some Valentine's shenanigans. I actually have a little more Valentine's content coming our way, but that'll be in the last segment. So for now, I think we should move on to our special segment. What do you think?
Shanna
Okay.
We're back, and this week's special segment is They Said What, where we share all of the unusual, funny, maybe offensive things that people have said to us as parents recently. Laura, you're up first. What's your first They Said What?
Laura
Okay, I've gotten this from multiple people over the course of the past year. So since Sebastian's been one, basically, it almost exclusively happens when they are in their little wagon stroller, then we're walking around. And I can't count the number of times I've had people say this to us. Okay. So the thing that people say to us all the time is they ask, are they twins? Oh, but they're like two years apart. They are two years apart. Yeah. And usually I blink a couple of times. I'm like, no. No, they're two years apart. And I have to say, I do not have a really good response to that. I get that when they're sitting down, it's less obvious, I guess.
Shanna
Oh, true.
Laura
Like here, I'm going to send you a picture of them in their stroller wagon, and you can tell me what you think.
Shanna
OK.
Laura
This is from December. So not too long ago, but they were still one and three.
Shanna
Okay.
Um, Laura, maybe add me to your they said what list, but I kind of am feeling the twin vibe here. Look, their heads are about the same size because baby's heads are big, right? So that's his head is about the same size as Augie's. And Augie has his hood up, so you can't see that he has brown hair, Sebastian has black, but yeah, I kind of get it. Well, how does it make you feel? Do you think it's weird or you just flustered when people ask?
Laura
I mean, okay, so I remember very clearly when I was a kid, people would always ask my mom if my brother and I were twins. Really? But it was when we were older and we were like the same height, right? So it's when we were like seven and nine. And for the longest time, I was the same height as my brother and then he hit puberty and like shot up. And... that I can see. Like it's a little harder to tell the difference between a seven and nine year olds or like, or we're only 20 months apart. But so like sometimes we were seven and eight, you know, so.
Shanna
Right. That's pretty close.
Laura
Yeah. And then my friend Andrea, who is like just a few months younger than me, she was sort of like my sister. She was my dad's best friend's kid. So like a cousin, a sister, we spent all our time together. So people would always stop us and be like, are they triplets?
So I guess it's a thing people want to know. It's so funny to me because it's probably the way that twin parents act when people are like, are they identical? And they're like, no, they're not identical. They look so different, right? They can really see the differences between their kids. But it is funny to me that I have my hyperverbal four-year-old and my barely talking just turned two-year-old. And people are like, are they twins? I'm like, not quite.
Shanna
Yeah, if they're out of that stroller and running around and behaving as they behave, I'm sure it would be pretty obvious to most people that there's a big age difference.
Laura
Augie also slouches in that stroller. So like they end up the same height.
Shanna
Oh, true. Yeah. He's maybe slouched down a little in that photo I saw. That makes sense. It reminds me of my non-parenting related. OK, I'm going to be the person who's like, your situation reminds me of my dogs. OK, I'm sorry. I'm just going to go there. It's okay because you have kids, you know?
Laura
True. Yeah. You understand that it's not always about your dogs.
Shanna
So, Chilly, when he was alive, Chilly and Sasha, my two little dogs, they are both blonde, furry little things. And the number one question I would get constantly is, are they brother and sister? And I was just like, no, no, I got them at different times. They're like a year and a half apart. And it would just shock people that they were not related.
Laura
So, Laura, I've been there. Yeah, you know. I mean, you know. I should have asked you for advice on how to respond. Yeah. But anyway, that was my first They Said What. Shanna, I want to hear your first They Said What.
Shanna
Okay, mine happened a few weeks ago when I was in that whole flurry of switching preschools. Remember that lovely week?
Laura
I do remember you suddenly found out that your preschool wasn't going to allow no naps. It's a double negative, but that's what it was. They were mandating napping for even the four-year-olds, and you were like, no thanks, noping out of that. And you quickly found a new preschool to send CECE to. And it was a whole whirlwind that happened very, very fast.
Shanna
Yes, good summary. You were listening, Laura. Aw, good friend.
Laura
It's almost like I pay attention when you're talking.
Shanna
Aw, that feels so special. Okay, so that week, we had pretty much made our decision by Thursday that we were going to have Friday be her last day at the old school Monday would be her first day at the new school. Right. We were like set on that. Bing, bang, boom. Yeah. So I go to pick CECE up from school that day and I go and I open her preschool classroom door and I look in and usually what I do is I see her and she sees me and then she like goes and gets her stuff. And we leave together. So I poke my head in. I see her. I'm like, hi. And she's like, oh, mama. Then her teacher whisks into my view and says, oh, Sisi's mommy. Can I talk to you outside? And I was like, oh, yeah, hi. Yeah, sure. OK, no problem. So she and I step outside of the classroom and close the door. And I'm standing there with her.
And I'm already kind of feeling bad because I'm taking Cece suddenly out of her classroom, right? Like there's a little bit of weirdness there. And I don't know if she knows that yet because we've only been dealing with the director of the school. I just don't know what this is all about. And she says, I hear you're taking Cece out of the school. And I was like, oh, yeah. Yeah. And she's like, is it anything I did? And I was like, whoa. No. No, it's not anything you did. It's this new nap rule. It just doesn't work for our family. And I'm explaining the whole thing about why the nap's not working and everything. And she says, please don't go. I love CECE. CECE and I have such a bond. She's so cute. She's so cute. Please don't leave. I will do anything. You can message me any time of day or night for any question you have. And I'm suddenly just feeling like,
Caught in this like wait what what is happening right now yeah was she like the the director of the school or what what's going on here no no she's not the director of the school she's a teacher in this particular classroom so i assume the director told her that he would be leaving. And what I gathered is that the teacher was like, no, she will not be leaving. Leave it to me. I will make sure that they stay here. And her mission was to come out and convince me to stay. And I was so caught off guard. I felt so awkward. She's like, I know you don't want her to nap. That's OK. I'll keep her awake. I'll just keep her in this other classroom. And I'll try to keep an eye on her while all the other kids are napping.
Laura
I'll try to keep an eye on her. That's what you want to hear from your preschool provider. I'll hopefully do a good job keeping an eye on her.
Shanna
I know in my mind, I'm like, that is not gonna work. That is not a solution. On the outside, I'm like, oh yeah, sure, let me talk to my husband about it.
I'll let you know what we decide. I'm like, yeah, no, we love you. I'm really sad that she'll be leaving her friends and you and everything. And let me talk to my husband about it. In the back of my mind, I'm like, this decision is made, right? But yeah. In the moment I was just like so caught off guard and I didn't know what to say and stuff. And at that moment the door opens and another teacher is bringing Cece out and she is melting down. She's crying because she had seen me. She saw me and I waved and then I disappeared. So she's like, where's mama? Where's mama? So the other teacher brings her out and I'm holding her and she's crying in my ear and this teacher is still trying to convince me to stay like she's still going on and on oh CECE we have such a bond right oh you're so cute we're gonna go. And she's like weird. I know.
And CECE's starting to calm down and, you know, looks at her teacher and the teacher says, we don't want to say goodbye to you. It's not good for her to switch schools in front of her lady. I haven't even told CECE about this plan yet.
Laura
Oh, okay. So this is how CECE finds out that she's switching schools is because this teacher is pulling a guilt trip in front of her. Oh my God.
Shanna
Yes, it's the first CECE heard of it. I'm sure she was just like, huh? Like had no idea what to make of it, you know, but I was just like, oh my gosh, this is like, I had this whole plan of like discussing it with CECE when we got home and you know, mentally preparing her for it and everything. And you know, there she was like getting a guilt trip about it. It's not good for her to switch schools. She said that to me and I was Guilted Laura. I felt terrible. I was like, I'm doing the wrong thing. Oh my gosh. It made it made the whole thing like so much more complicated for me.
Laura
Wow. Okay. So you felt guilty. I feel incensed. Like I am so mad at this woman for doing this. in the first place and then doing it in front of CECE is like fucking ridiculous and like if you needed a sign that this school was not right for you guys like there it is like. The fact that she did that to you at all is so unprofessional, Shanna. Like, that's bonkers. That's like absolutely off the wall.
Shanna
It's so good and interesting to hear an outsider's perspective of it, right? Because in the moment, I'm such a people pleaser, you know, I want to be friendly and stuff. And I'm just like, oh, you know, she's really gonna miss her and she's reacting emotionally and blah, blah, blah and making all these excuses for it. But definitely there was, like this gut level like, what the heck? This is not right. Like this does not feel good. And yeah, it was, it was really hard. And I left being like, okay, we'll let you know. She's like, okay, just, you know, text me later today and let me know. And I was like, okay. And so I went home and I like had to carry that burden the rest of the day. And like, oh my gosh, I have to text this lady back and let her know. And I didn't of course, cause I forgot about it. And then she texted me at like eight PM. She's like, so did you decide? Oh my God.
I had to be like, you know, we've decided we're going to move on. I hate like letting people down. And, you know, I didn't say that, but I'm thinking that. So, woof. Yeah.
Laura
But she let you down. I mean, that, that is so unprofessional. It's so weird too. Cause like, I don't even understand why this teacher was so invested. It sounds like she was going to get like a bonus at the end of the year if she kept all her students or something, you know, like, I'm sure it's not a monetary thing, but that's what it sounds like to me. She had some incentive to keep her. It feels like a bit of an unhealthy attachment. I know that teachers and students grow a bond, but kids leave classrooms for all kinds of reasons all the time.
Shanna
And to tell you the truth, this notion of them having a bond was news to me. I never considered CeCe having a bond with this teacher. You know, she's a new teacher that came in after our beloved teacher and CeCe never particularly like seemed to love her or anything. So I was just like, Oh, you know, Interesting. Okay. But as a result, you know, I told her that night via texts that we're not going to be coming back. I decided to not even let CeCe come back to school that Friday because Friday was going to be her last day. I was going to let her go back and say goodbye to everybody. And I was like, I can't put her back in that situation where she might be guilt tripped and like this big boohoo farewell and make her feel weird about this transition. So she never went back. I just kept her out.
Laura
I think that was the right move. I would not have sent Augie back into that situation either because you don't know what she's going to say all day. You don't know what kind of influence she's going to try to have about why this new school is not as good or something and make the transition just a million times harder. So yeah, good for you for making that decision.
Shanna
Thank you.
Laura
Wow. That was a doozy.
Shanna
Alrighty. All right. What about you? Let's cleanse our palate of that. And why don't you share your next? They said what?
Laura
Okay. Mine is definitely a funny one. And this is something Augie said recently. Okay. So, Augie is just so fascinating to me these days. And he's becoming really musical. Like, I feel like he's always been really into singing and stuff. But like lately, He's been really into, like, classical and orchestral compositions. Like, I think I've talked about the fact that he really likes listening to, like, the scores of movies. Have I talked about that?
Shanna
Oh, yeah. Like, he loves the Takah's revenge piece on the Moana soundtrack or something. It's Takah Attacks. It's by Mark Mansfina.
Laura
And yes, he can tell the difference between Taka attacks and I mean like all the other tracks that are named like Kakamora. Well, I mean, obviously you can talk Kakamora because that's where the coconut pirates come in and he loves that. But anyway, he's super tuned into that sort of thing. And lately he has been sort of composing his own songs. in his head and just start singing them. And usually this happens when he wakes up. So we have the monitor on that like cycles between the two kids rooms, but Sebastian always wakes up like an hour or two before Augie these days. So it'll be just on Augie. And if it's my morning to sleep in and wait for Augie to wake up, I usually get woken up to him singing a new song every morning over the monitor.
Shanna
Adorable.
Laura
Actually, I'm going to send you a little recording I took from the monitor.
Shanna
Awesome. All right. Send it over.
Oh my gosh. That is precious. I love that he's singing to himself. It's a catchy little tune. Did he make that up?
Laura
Oh, 100%. This is his own composition. And he does this like almost every morning. He's coming up with different tunes. And you can tell he's like working on it, right? Like he's kind of like doing different iterations of it. Which is so sweet, but this is not actually my they said what my they said what is what happened when I went to go get him out of his room that morning.
Shanna
Okay.
Laura
Okay. So I go to get him out of his room and the first thing he says to me is, Mama, did you hear that song? And I said, I did, honey. I was listening to you on the monitor. It was really wonderful. It was so fun listening to you saying, can you tell me more about it? And he says, well, it's a little violent.
Okay. And I said, oh, okay. Why is it a little violent? He goes, oh, well, you know, it's a little violent because it goes da, da, da, da, da. But then it's violent because didn't you hear the violins come in at some point?
OMG. So cute. So in his mind, first of all, he has a whole orchestral arrangement going on in his brain. Didn't you hear the violins coming in at some point? But it just cracked me up so bad to hear him call it violent because he heard the violins in there. I thought it was so cute.
Shanna
That is so cute. Oh my gosh, does he know what violent means?
Laura
Well, I'm sure I've told him that certain shows are too violent and he can't watch them. But I'm guessing I need to explain it a little more. He's like, gosh, I can't watch shows with violins in them.
Shanna
Oh my gosh.
Laura
Yeah, I know. I think that maybe that requires a little clarification. But yeah, it's just so cute. And I'm loving this musical creativity that's coming out of him. I just love watching it.
Shanna
That is really, really cool. And it is so cute. This age, I'm noticing more word mixups. than before, I really, I think it's part of the like confidence of just going for like saying something they think is right, you know? Like the other night, CeCe was brushing her teeth and then she brushed her tongue and she goes, I just brushed my taste bugs. Taste bugs. Oh my God. Taste bugs.
Laura
So cute. I do think it also has something to do with like their understanding rhyme and letters more, right? Like, cause he's into the thing now where he'll be like pony. pony pony starts with P or actually the way he says it as he'll go P starts with pony, which is really cute. But like I think maybe this like sort of nascent understanding of spelling and the way letters work must contribute to it because he he now knows violins and violence sound similar, right? Right. So there must be some kind of leap that happened there.
Shanna
Uh-huh. Yeah, it's interesting little window into the workings of their brain.
Laura
Yeah, yeah. But it was very sweet. And yeah, I'm just very happy with all the music. The other day, he was singing, daddy, daddy, daddy, daddy, daddy.
Shanna
Amazing. I love that.
Laura
But yeah, that was my final. They said, what, Sean, do you have one more for us?
Shanna
I do. But let's take a break and come back with it. Good idea.
Laura
All right, we're back and Shanna has one more. They said what for us? Shanna, let's hear it.
Shanna
All right, this one is from CECE, the four-year-old. As we mentioned earlier, four-year-old development is showing a bit more of thought process, especially on big ideas or the past or memories and stuff like that. So here's something that CECE has been thinking about lately and talking about a lot. And here's how it first came up. We were sitting there cuddling and she was sitting on my lap and kind of leaning her head on my shoulder and, you know, we were snuggling and stuff. And she pulls back and she looks at me and she says, mama, when I'm grown and bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger and bigger, you're gonna die.
Okay, thanks for the reality check, kid. Okay, that's not an isolated incident. She has been talking about this nonstop. Just yesterday, she was like out of nowhere. She's playing and she's like, mama, one day when I'm grown up and you're dead, I'm gonna have a baby.
When you're dead may hopefully before That's what I say. I'm like I hope not I really want to meet your babies if you have babies But always whenever she talks about or thinks about being older I'm dead in that scenario and it Freaks me out and I of course like keep my cool when she brings it up, but I'm just like don't love this conversation you
Laura
I feel like it hits a little harder when you're the geriatric mom, right? Like if you had your kids at 20, you're like, no, I'm gonna live till you're, I don't know, at least 60, but now it's like, oh, maybe, yeah, you're probably like, okay. Yeah, yeah, way to twist that knife, CECE.
Shanna
I know, and she brought it up in the car the other day. The whole family was driving somewhere and she was just like, oh yeah, I'm an eye molder. You're gonna be dead and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was driving and I don't know that particular moment. It just like really upset me. I was like, okay, stop talking about me being dead when you're older. Like I don't wanna think about that reality because I am the geriatric mom, right? I don't know. And I was just like clenching the steering wheel and like tears were welling up, you know? I'm like trying to hold it together and we're trying to keep it light. And finally, Elle was like, okay, can we talk about something happier? I was like, thank you, thank you.
Laura
Thank you, Elle. Yeah, thank you. Do you think any of this has anything to do with the fact that she's getting a little bit of like religious education these days? Because there is a lot of talk about like, I don't know, just death stuff in the Christian church. Like it's not like they sit around talking about death, but you know what I mean? Like it's just built into like the theology, right? Jesus died for our sins. You have to like know what being died. Yeah. So I'm wondering if maybe it's just sort of seeping in to her consciousness, because Augie will mention stuff about like, he's really into like, when you're older and older and older, but he hasn't gotten into the like, and you're going to be dead. Like he's mentioned how Papa Adam is dead, like once or twice, very sort of matter of factly.
But that makes sense because he is right like he just died You know and I talked about it, but like he hasn't made that connection yet about me and Cory dying So I'm hoping he puts that off for a while because I don't yeah, I don't want to deal with that right now Yes, truly, you know, I don't know because I don't think that they're getting any religious
Shanna
discussion or education actually at the school. They kind of just bring it up during those little chapel moments. And there wasn't anything about it there. I'm trying to think like maybe it's because she's tuning in more to past memories and one of her big memories was chili dying like she was there the day that they put chili down and I was holding him and you know just bawling my eyes out and she was a great comfort to me that day so I think that's a huge memory for her like she brings that up a lot and you know she's probably mentioned death and Elle's probably like yeah well mom and dad are gonna die someday you know I feel like that's a little bit more of the cycle of how that's coming to be interesting interesting
Laura
Well, Shanna, I really hope that it's not for a very, very, very long time.
Shanna
Especially when she talks about having babies, I'm like already in grandma mode. I'm telling you, I'm like, oh my gosh, no, I'm gonna be alive and I'm gonna be the best grandma ever. And like, I'm ready for grandkids and I have a four year old.
Laura
That's hilarious. See, this is like our bodies though, right? Because biologically, we're supposed to be grandmas by now.
Ah, that is so true. Oh my word.
Shanna
Wow.
Laura
Can't fight biology, but anyway, I hope CECE gets a little less morbid.
Shanna
You know me too. Until then, should we move on to our BFPs and BFNs? Yes, we should.
Laura
All right, so we close every episode with a Big Fat Positive or a big fat negative from the week. And Shanna, let's hear it. What's your BFP or BFN?
Shanna
I have a BFP. Yay. Yay. I don't know if I've talked about this on the show, but last summer, I became aware of a nonprofit organization called For Goodness Cakes. Have I talked about this? No, this is news to me. Okay. Cool. So it's a nonprofit organization across the country in several major cities, and what they do is they pair bakers, like home bakers, volunteers, to make birthday cakes or graduation cakes for children in the foster system or children facing adversity. And when I learned of this organization, I was like, I could not think of a volunteer situation that is more suited for me than this. It just felt so perfect, right? I love decorating cakes. Like, it's so fun and I really only do it twice a year on my kids' birthdays because I just like, I don't know. It just doesn't seem practical to walk around like decorating fancy cakes all the rest of the time of year.
Laura
Yeah, I mean, there's just not a lot of occasion to eat cake. Like, and if you decorate a bunch of cakes, then you have to eat a bunch of cake and like, yeah, cake's delicious, but it's supposed to feed a party.
Shanna
Yeah, exactly.
Laura
Another family of four.
Shanna
So I immediately signed up and I went through all of the training online training about food safety and you know just about their organization and everything and had my name in the hat and for several months I just like I don't know if I felt too shy to actually take on one or. just too busy or something but I like I finally signed up for one like in October and that was the week that Cece got the flu and I was like I can't bake a cake you know for someone when I have someone so sick in the house so I had to turn it down and someone else had to do it and then just got super busy and last week I was like you know what I think I want to do that like I'm feeling like I have a little more time right now and I signed up for a bake and And it was for a little girl named Ella who's turning one. Oh, they put in that they wanted a vanilla cake with chocolate frosting with butterfly themes.
And I was like, that sounds really fun. You know, it's not too far from my house to make the delivery. And so I signed up and this week I Did it and it was so fun and so rewarding and I don't know it's just like such a wonderful experience and I'm just so happy I did it.
Laura
Pictures or it didn't happen.
Shanna
All right, let me send you a pic.
Laura
All right, let's see. Oh my goodness. Okay, so it's this beautiful white fondant cake with pink fondant letters on top and a heart that says Ella. And you have cake toppers with butterflies all over them and all around the side. It is beautiful. I'm just saying, if you got a cricket, you could be making those butterflies on your own.
Shanna
Oh, true, true, true.
Laura
It's so cute and so professionally done and just such a nice thing for you to donate your time doing shanna thank you it was.
Shanna
You know it's interesting because when you drop off the cake part of what they tell you is that like you're not gonna meet the child right it's there's a ton of privacy. It's not about receiving any fanfare as the baker. You're not ever going to see the celebration. Nothing. It's just doing this act of love, just out of love and generosity. And I just dropped it off in an office building of a center that does services for underprivileged youth. And I dropped it off to the receptionist. And that was it. But I was like, literally, my eyes were welling up with tears as I was leaving. I put on my sunglasses in case I saw anybody because I was like, oh, my gosh, I'm about to cry because it just felt so good to do something for someone else. I have been really missing that from my life and I'm just so grateful for this organization and that I had the opportunity to do that.
Okay, so can you tell us the name again and where people can find it if they want to sign up too? Yes, it's called For Goodness Cakes and their website is ForGoodnessCakes.org. They're also on Instagram. And yeah, if baking is something you like to do, definitely sign up. You do not have to have Any professional skills whatsoever. I'm in a Facebook group for the other sprinklers. We're called sprinklers and we post pictures of what we send out to these kids. And some of them are just, just really down home bakes, you know, it does not have to be fancy at all. It's all about making it with love. So if that's something that sounds interesting to you, definitely check it out and see if they're in your area. So fun. Yeah. So that was my big BFP for the week. What do you have for us, Laura? I also have a BFP.
Laura
All right. What is it? I teased this in the opening segment, but it's another Valentine's themed thing. And the BFP is that Sebastian's daycare slash preschool had a little Valentine's dance for the families. Oh my God. A dance! After school one day and it was adorable. Like it was so cute. I'm gonna send you a few pictures.
Shanna
Yes please. Did you dress up for the dance?
Laura
So I really don't have a lot of Valentine's themed like heart things or anything so I found one shirt that my mom actually sent to me. Last Valentine's which is like a cat batting at a cat toy that's like a dangling heart.
So it was just in the gym of this church, right? Like there's this church complex that he goes to for his daycare. And they just set it up in the gym and parents came early and helped decorate it a little bit. And I was in charge of the photo backdrop. And I kind of like spontaneously signed up for it without thinking it through and was like, shit. This is going to be harder than I thought. And I didn't want to buy something because I'm a compulsive crafter. And then my secondary BFP is that I went to one of Augie's little friends' houses for a Valentine's party last weekend. And they had a photo backdrop that they had created. Her husband's an artist and he has a large format printer, so printed out, a giant background. So I had like asked her, I was like, where'd you get that backdrop? And she was like, oh, we made it. And I was like, oh, Shucks, that's, that's right. Your artist.
And she was like, do you want it? I was like, yes, please. What? So she just gave it to us. What are the chances? I know, I know. And it was really saved my ass. So you can see us standing in front of it. Um, they actually still have it up in the preschool. I like went to go pick them up and they just left it up in the gym because it's so cute.
Shanna
It is so cute. I'm looking at the picture and it's like a dark, like a black background with lots of white hearts. And then there's some red and pink one sprinkled in there. It's super cute. What is it made out of?
Laura
It's paper. It's just like a large format kind of like architectural printer type thing and then they just like colored in a few of the hearts with a marker or something. Oh smart. Oh artists. Yeah I know artists they're so smart. So anyway thank you Kate for that that really made my day and yeah it was just a sweet little family event and Augie had a lot of fun like exploring all the toys that Sebastian preschool head out. And it was nice to feel a little more connected to that community because we've had all these like family events for August preschool, but this was the first family event for Sebastian school. So it was nice to, you know, talk to some of the other parents and just really sort of connect. But yeah, lots of love all around.
Shanna
Very awesome. I love the photo of your whole family in front of the backdrop. Looks like a selfie. Everyone looks so happy and so cute.
Laura
Yeah, we were having fun. That was a last minute thing that I insisted. We all take a photo in front of the backdrop and Corey had to tickle Auggie a little to get that photo. But I'm like, it's so great because we actually have a photo of all of us looking at the camera and smiling for once. Oh my gosh, that's a miracle. Total miracle. So, uh, yeah, that's my BFP, and I think that's it for our show.
Shanna
I think so, but first I have a five-star review to read. Yay! Yay! This is from Post Recyclops on Apple Podcasts. The title of the review is my favorite mom podcast, Five Stars. I started listening to Shanna and Laura when I found out I was pregnant with my daughter almost two years ago. I was terrified and excited but had no clue what to expect whatsoever. Listening to these two amazing women every week since has helped me so much in learning to expect the unexpected, laugh at the uncontrollable, and advocate for myself. I feel like I'm listening to two great mom friends when I hear them talk. I love the comments that they give from their own life experiences and appreciate the many great experts from a variety of backgrounds that they've had on the show. I plan on being a listener for as long as the show goes on, which I hope is a long time.
Laura
Oh, that's I'm flustered because I don't know what to say because it's such a good review.
Shanna
I know it's such a wonderful review. I think what really stood out to me is helping her understand how to advocate for herself. Like how cool is that? I mean, that's just that's awesome. I love that. Thank you for sharing that. And listeners, if you haven't had a chance yet to leave us a five star review, could you please do us a favor and head on over to Apple podcasts, leave us those five stars and say a few things that you love about the show. It's just so wonderful to have all this positivity about the show out there because it really helps new listeners want to take a chance on the show. and we can then help other parents. And if you have any, they said what that you want to share with us, you know we want to hear them. Laura, where can everyone reach us?
Laura
We're on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok at BFP Podcast. We have a website, bigfatpositivepodcast.com. If you want to send us an email, you can always send us a voice memo in that email. Just send it to contact at bigfatpositivepodcast.com. And if you want to join the coolest group of people on the internet, just search Facebook for Big Fat Positive Community. It's a private group, so you have to request to join and answer the two membership questions. And once you do that, we will let you straight into all the wonderful, amazing, supportive conversations we're having in there.
Shanna
Our show is produced by Laura Birek, Shanna Micko, and Steve Yager. Thanks for listening, everyone. Have a great week. Bye. Bye.