Postpartum Depression and Anxiety: Laura’s Story – Ep. 196

That's a lot.

And it's really what's so magical about learning your ABCs. But this one. was amazing. It was like 11 acres near my house, like lots of trees and outdoor space. And there was like a little garden area and chickens and just like love chickens.

Yep. When I went to go check it out, some of the kids were cleaning out the chicken coop. And I'm just like, how idyllic is that, right? I'm like walking past a garden of sunflowers and the kids are playing with chickens. And it just seemed perfect and like beautiful. And I was like, sign me up. Like I literally told the lady, I'm like, I'm super interested. She's like, I think there might be a space open right away. And I'm like, great. So I went home and she sent me the application and I started filling out the application and I did a double take.

How did parents meet? I'm like, huh. What? Yeah, I was like, well, that's weird. I'm like, okay. We met in high school, doing theater and speech. Okay, cool. I don't know, just starting to fill this in. Question number two, how was the pregnancy? What? I'm like, what does that have to do with anything? I'm like, it was great. Next question, hospital or home birth?

And at that point I'm starting to get red flags, right? People can starting. Yeah, starting. I'm like hospital. I'm starting to feel like, are they trying to weed out certain people? I'm starting to feel insecure about this. I'm thinking about how magical this preschool is. I'm like, Hospital. I guess I have to admit that, right? I'm getting the sense that they want me to say home birth. Next question. What family or friends were present? I'm like, my husband, grandma came later. So I'm still filling this in at this point, Laura. That's how much I really wanted this preschool. Next question, how was the birth if adopted C last section? Well, that's nice. OK, so how was the birth? I'm like, if they just asked about whether I had a home birth, these people definitely don't want to know that I had an elective C section, right?

So I'm just like, the birth was great, uncomplicated and super peaceful.

Oh, you would be perfect for this school.

I'm like, okay. Reduce, I guess, but let's be real. I'm not going to eliminate media exposure. So I'm definitely feeling like at this point I'm failing this test. And then there's a question where I have to write an answer. Please describe your child's habits in relation to television, movies, videos, video games, and the computer.

She never uses the computer. Never used. That's what I should have just put. Never uses the computer. I like does play on the iPad while I'm in meetings, count, watch Paw Patrol movies. I'm just like kind of giving up on the application at this point. I'm like, Oh my God. What kind of music do you and your children listen to at home? Wiggle jiggle, vagina by cupcake.

I'm so screwed. I'm like, I don't know if this place is for us in this one. My child watches more than one to two hours of television per day. Frequently, sometimes or never. I just like frequently. Sorry, but.

And CeCe goes, no, I'm Marshall, which is one of the Paw Patrol dogs. I'm like, oh my god. The cat's already out of the bag, right? It's obvious I let this kid watch TV in Paw Patrol. And there was something about just, I don't know, I got this gut feeling that like, ugh, that's embarrassing. Or I shouldn't be admitting that or something. And then the application. And I was like, no, no, no. We can't do it.

It's a parody account where it's like she's parodying these very, very extreme, crunchy parents, you know, who don't allow any added sugar and they harvest their own eggs from their chickens in the backyard and, you know, get lived by candlelight, all this stuff, right? I mean, it's like very extreme and it's obviously a parody. But like that sounds like that's the person they're aiming for. And that's like a privileged white person shit, at least in this area in LA, like 100%. So it's just like, they think they're trying to aim for a certain like philosophy, but what they're really doing is keeping out anyone who's like not just like them and also like fucking like able-bodied people like when did your child crawl? I don't know. That seems very ableist to me. I'm pissed off at these people. And I'm glad you did not submit that application.

Well, hopefully preschool is on the horizon for us soon. I will update more about that later. In the meantime, I want to hear from you and what's going on in your world besides painters and builders in your house. Or maybe that is what you want to talk about. And that's great, too. No, I just want to talk about anything but that for my check-in.

So he was going Tuesday through Friday and he did really well. To be honest, like I thought there would be a little bit more of an issue, but there's something about going every day that I think just makes it easier. Yeah. Like he knows what he's doing. He hasn't been like crying at drop offs. And not that he did that a lot, but like he would kind of resist or we'd be driving and he'd be like, go backwards, go back home. And we didn't have any of that this week. So.

By whom? I mean, we should all take credit for them, but I think the dads were very interested in getting the kids on rides, you know, our three-year-olds. And Augie went to his three-year checkup recently and we found out he was 37 and a half inches tall. And there are some rides at Disneyland. You have to be 38 inches to get on. And with shoes and everything, he's like exactly 38 inches, right? And he's grown a little bit since then. And one of them was the Millennium Falcon Smugglers Run ride in Star Wars Land. And we asked him, we said, do you want to go on the Millennium Falcon? He said, yes. We said, it might be kind of scary. He said, I want to go on the Millennium Falcon because of course he would say that, Shanna. Yeah. He is a child and we like paid the extra 20 bucks so we can get like the fast pass thing that they're doing now.

It's now it's called Genie Plus and you get like a time slot to go into rides and stuff. And we didn't want to miss it. So we got our time slot to go on Millennium Falcon and it was like first thing in the morning. So we actually did get to go on, it's a small world first. We walked by it, we had a little time and there was no line. That was great. Everyone loved it. Sebastian was super into it. He was using his new pointing skills to point at everything. Very cute. And Augie and his little friend, my friend's kid, they sat next to each other in the front of the boat. like holding on to the railing, looking at everything. Very cute. Great start to the day. Then we head over to Star Wars Land. It has a name. What's it called? Galaxy's Edge.

We loaded Galaxy's Edge and they go to get on the Millennium Falcon and the dads took the kids and Carrie and I stayed out and took care of Sebastian and just hung out. And we were having a great time. Sebastian was walking around pointing at everything. We were taking like pictures with the professional, you know, they have these professional photographers around and That's part of the bonus. If you get the extra $20 thing, you get photos all day. So the kids go in, they're excited. You know, about 30 minutes later, they come out. They're not excited. Oh, no. Oh, no. Carrie's daughter was sobbing. Oh, no. Just, you know how they have those like tear-streaked faces? Oh, yeah. She was very unhappy. And Augie just looked like shell-shocked, you know? Oh, no. He just looked like dazed. Uh-huh. And Carrie and I were like, so what happened? They're like, that was a mistake. Oh, no.

It was just apparently like too loud, too dark, too intense.

So after the Millennium Falcon ride, we went and did another photo op in Disneyland's Galaxy Edge, right? And they like do this thing where they Superimpose X wings flying over you in the sky. It's very cool. Oh, cool. I'm sending you the photo and you can look at the two three-year-olds and zoom in on their faces. Oh, Augie does not look happy.

tea cups with the dads and I have a video of that and they're having so much fun. But the final point I want to make is that like for me, like now I can say, oh, they had fun because I've seen all these videos. But when I was leaving the park that day, I turned to Corey and I was like, well, that was. a total bust, like Aki was upset the whole time and just like having tantrums. And Corey was like, what are you talking about? And I was like, every time I saw him like getting off a ride or wanting to get on a ride, he's like having a tantrum, he's like freaking out. He's like, oh, you only saw the hard times because I like didn't get I didn't get to go on like one ride shot. I was like, I was like pushing Sebastian in the stroller when he was napping or I had to feed him or like there was just like one thing after another. I got to ride it's a small world.

Oh, and the like astro blasters, the like Buzz Lightyear astro blasters. Those are like that's literally all I got to ride the whole time. And Corey got to go on teacups and the roller coaster and the spinning rockets and oh we all went on the carousel I guess. But he got to see all the fun parts and I got to see all the like in-between meltdowns because he was sad the ride was over. He wanted to go on a different ride. And it was interesting because it's such a like metaphor for just like parenting in general, I feel like that if you're only seeing these like small slices of the day, it can like completely color your opinion about what's going on. And I think like observers, right? Like if you're like in the store and your kid's having a meltdown, they're like, oh, kids a problem child or whatever, but they don't see like all the sweet stuff that happens in between. Right.

So yeah, I thought it was a bust and then it turns out everyone had fun and Augie was like, I want to go back to Disneyland right away. So good. Well, that's good. I'm glad you had a good time. Yeah. But next time I'm going to insist on like doing more stuff with the kids, you know, definitely get in there, do those rides, see the smiles. Yeah. So that was our week. Sounds good. I mean, it was just Disneyland I told you about. I'll tell you more in our final segment. But I think it's time to move on to our special segment.

We're back, and this week we are going to do big topic part two where we talk to Laura about her experiences with postpartum anxiety and or depression. Last week we heard about my experience with postpartum anxiety and depression, and now we wanna talk to Laura. Laura, do you feel like you experienced any anxiety or depression after either of your pregnancies? Maybe?

easy days before the pandemic. So I have a family history of depression, but never personally have been diagnosed with depression, never felt the need to seek a diagnosis or, you know, need treatment. Though there have been times in my life where I've felt down and blue, but I've never gotten to the point where it feels like I need to. get extra help for it. But it is something I was sort of on alert for because my mom is very open about her experience with depression. And she tells everyone that Soloff saved her life and all that stuff. So she was very on top of me being like, are you feeling baby blues? Are you feeling depressed? Like she was very focused on whether I was feeling depressed. And after I had Augie, I could legitimately say I was not feeling depressed. I didn't feel any baby blues at all. I was not sad. or down in any way.

And I thought I was doing great until I had Sebastian two years later and had a point of comparison. Mm-hmm. And it wasn't until I was postpartum with Sebastian that I realized, oh, shit. I 100% had postpartum anxiety with Augie and just didn't realize it. Like, I thought it was all like normal new mom anxiety. It was one of those things where I thought everyone was feeling this way, and I'll get more specific in a second, but it didn't even occur to me that perhaps what I was going through was more than usual. nerves that you get with being a first-time parent. But when I had Sebastian and noticed the absence of these thoughts and feelings for the most part, I was like, oh, that might not have been normal. So let me get into some specifics. So when Augie was born, I remember specifically that I was like frozen with anxiety about my mom and my stepdad.

crossing the street to get to our house. If you remember, they had rented an apartment directly across the street and our street, people would drive fast down. It was kind of like a little artery that to go between freeways. So people would drive fast down it. But I was like completely convinced they were going to get hit by a car. Like to the point where I could not watch them. across the street. I had to turn away and my heart would be racing and I would just be full of anxiety about it. Similarly, I don't remember as many specifics about how I felt towards Augie as a baby because they were a little less

tangible, you know, like I could remember that one because now that one seems so silly because like I've crossed that street so many times and I you can see cars coming from a million miles away, you know, but like that I remember that sticking in my head and with Augie it was just like all the things like I was constantly worried he wasn't breathing, you know, I'd be like staring at him and making sure his lips were pink and you know all that stuff make sure his chest was rising and You know, car seat straps. Like, is he strapped in properly? You know, all that stuff. Anytime he'd go out with. someone who wasn't me. So like with Corey, basically, because that's the only person who would go out with him.

Like if he would be on a drive to somewhere with Corey, I would just the whole time be thinking that they're getting in a car accident or, you know, what if he's choking and Corey doesn't notice and, you know, just like stuff like that. And the thing is it kind of went away on its own. So I mean, it definitely went away on its own because I wasn't there with him as like a one year old and still having these thoughts. So, you know, they self-limited, which I guess is a good thing. I didn't need treatment. Maybe I could have used treatment to help me out, but I didn't know I needed it because, you know, we've talked about postpartum anxiety, but it feels very hard to define. And everyone's asking, like, are you depressed? Are you depressed? Are you depressed? Like, no one's actually asking, like, are you feeling, you know, scared, basically? Like, I was just scared all the time.

That something was going to happen.

trying to learn all this new shit like I'm supposed to be having them sleep but you know this hour and do this at this hour and am I doing everything right and right it all just kind of contributes to it so I mean maybe mine wasn't even clinical PPA maybe it was just like the world and you know that brings me to my next point which is I think It's very hard for me to separate my postpartum, my pregnancy and postpartum experiences from things that are going on in my life. As far as anxiety goes, I talked about this very briefly on the show and I don't want to get into too much detail on it. But when I was like 11 or 12 weeks pregnant, one of my really good friends was murdered. And it was a very public thing. It was random and very sensational. And it was all over the news. It was bad. It was very bad.

I don't want to get too much into it because I don't want to make this about me, you know, because it wasn't. It wasn't about me. But I did absorb a lot. You know, I went down and when I found out about my friend. So it was my friend. I was friends with the. I don't want to use names, but I was friends with him who died. But I was really good friends with his wife. We've been friends since like fifth grade or something. I mean, she was like in my core friend group. We were supposed to have dinner the night he died. And so like I went immediately to her when I heard what happened. She was living down in like South of LA and I drove down to see her and I spent like the day with her and everything was very fresh. And we were both having a hard, you know, we were both crying and I was trying to be a good friend and be there supportive for her. And I, you know, I was like 12 weeks pregnant.

Right. And that was a lot to absorb, you know, during a pregnancy. And I'm not sad that I did it. I was glad I could be there for my friend. But I don't think I properly, like that is when I probably should have found a therapist to like talk to about it. So I could have, you know, process my feelings, but I didn't. Instead, I went on with my life. And then just by complete coincidence, the day after I gave birth to Augie, they made an arrest in his case. Oh, wow. Like, I was in the hospital bed unable to move host C-section and I see text messages from my friends. And it was like the same friend group, you know, and it's just like it was very triggering because it's the same friend group. And when your friends suddenly start texting who you haven't heard from in a while, it's like, oh, God, what went wrong? Yeah.

And I see that they they caught a guy and it's a suspect and it just all came back. Mm hmm. And I remember I was obsessively reading about it, of course, because I wanted to know what was going on. And then I, you know, was nursing Augie. And then I fell asleep, you know, super fucking tired, right? After having a C-section and all that stuff. And I remember I had this intense dream, like just so vivid of I was at the house, my house, and some, like, Robbers were trying to get in and they were basically like the guy they caught you know like and they were trying to get in the front door and I like I don't know if I grabbed a baseball bat or something but I like went into mama bear mode and I was like fucking get away from my baby. I was just yelling and screaming, and I beat these robbers back and did the protective mama bear thing in the stream.

And I remember waking up and being like, whoa. Like, whoa. Because it was that instinct of you're never going to touch my baby.

Healthcare workers had already mostly gotten theirs. And so I had been like reassured that everyone on the LND floor was vaccinated. Oh, good. So that helped a little bit. But we had just been through the worst surge that Los Angeles has been through. We were like the worst place, I think in the world at the time, the most deaths. I mean, it was like every day in the news, it was that ERs were overflowing and there was nowhere to go if you had a heart attack. Do you remember that news? It was like, if you have a heart attack, the ambulance might not pick you up, depending on how bad it is or something. Oh my God. It was stuff like that that's in the news. And then I'm just like, oh, just waiting to go in for my V-Back. Oh, Jesus. So that was the context of me going in to give birth and, you know, we couldn't have anyone else in the hospital with us.

And it wasn't clear whether Corey would be able to, like, come and go in the hospital. It was just a very different experience, and I know that so many of our listeners have been through that. And I was lucky I got to have Corey in there with me. I know people who didn't get to have their partners in there with them for various reasons because of the pandemic. It was a pretty uneventful birth as you heard on the podcast. And then I'm like, okay. So at my hospital, you get to stay in the birthing room till you give birth and then two hours after birth. And then they move you to the postpartum room. So I know that this happened within two hours of giving birth because I was still in that room. My memory of timelines is foggy. But right after birth, within two hours, I'm lying there. I have like Sebastian on my boob. I don't even think he has a name yet.

And a nurse comes in and is like, I have to ask you some questions. I was like, OK. And she proceeds to give me the Edinburgh Postnatal Depression Scale Test. Within two hours of giving birth? Yeah. Wow. Okay. So I'm lying there right after giving birth and she asks, okay, in the past seven days, I have been able to laugh and see the funny side of things as much as I always could. Not quite so much now. Definitely not so much now. Not at all.

Yeah.

And people are like lining up for hours to get leftover vaccines. Remember, this is the world we're in, right? Right. Now, here's a question. I have looked forward with enjoyment to things as much as I ever did, rather less than I used to, definitely less than I used to, hardly at all.

And I should also mention, I totally forgot to mention this, is that like meanwhile, my father's health is declining. Right. He went into a home, I think, around the time I gave birth. Like he's nonverbal. He's very, very sick. He has like a progressive brain disease that, you know, is fatal, um, is terminal. And so I'm processing all of this at the same time as like healing my, you know, torn vagina. Uh, so it's a lot. Yeah. You know, it's a lot. It's a lot. So, uh, I feel like my story is a little less cut and dried than yours because I mean, you got a diagnosis, right? And you got help, and you got medication, and it helped. And for me, my symptoms were never as severe, but I do wonder, in retrospect, if I could have maybe felt better sooner. And I'm not even talking about medication necessarily.

If I could have prioritized finding a therapist or something, you know, because it's, I still don't have a therapist because it's so hard to like find the time to find one and then new ones aren't taking new patients. And when you have a baby, it's like, oh, fuck it. I don't have time to deal with this. I'm fine. You know, like I'm fine. I'll just listen to some Brene Brown audiobooks and like talk to my friends more. You know what I mean?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Or a bad job, I should say. You did a bad job because you kept it together and didn't reach out for help.

Oh, it's hard. It's hard.

Okay, we are back and we close every show with a Big Fat Positive or a big fat negative of the week. Shanna, I wanna know, do you have a BFP or a BFN for us?

We had amazing view on the ninth floor of downtown Los Angeles, and it was kind of cloudy and rainy, and so the view was beautiful, and ate dinner down in the lounge down there, and it was really nice because the mask mandate was lifted recently. everything just felt like normal. It was really exciting to like eat inside in an amazing lounge and eat delicious food and sleep in and not like have to get snacks for kids every five minutes and dinner and bedtime routine and all that jazz.

So this is going to sound depressing. Okay. And I need you to suspend judgment until I talk more about it. The title is called 4,000 weeks, because that's how many you get in your lifetime on average. That's what I thought. Okay, okay. Suspending judgment? Yes. Sounds super depressing, right? Like, oh my god, only 4,000 weeks and I spent this one like, you know, watching Paw Patrol on repeat while I scrolled Facebook, right? Yeah. But the book is so good about reframing it in context, talking about, you know, yes, it can seem like a little or it can seem like a lot, but also like the basic premise is like, you have a finite amount of time, you're not going to be able to do everything. So just do the right things, like do the things you want to do that make your life happier and better and like fuck everything else, basically, but in a much more eloquent British way.

I listened to the, I listened to the audiobook and he also has like a two year old, I think like at the time of writing, so it's fairly relatable in that sense. So, but I listened to it and I was feeling really sad about my dad and just like in general feeling overwhelmed and It lit to switch in my brain. I am not kidding. I could feel a difference between how I felt after listening to the book and before listening to the book. It was just a very, very good reframe for me and really helped me appreciate the small things and reminding me to take every day as it comes and really enjoy the you know, phase of life I'm in right now. And I just highly recommend it. So I just want to tell our listeners that and you because yeah, it really, it really helped me even though it seems like it would just be depressing and then make you feel like you can't do enough, right? But it's the opposite.

It's like you can do enough. He also calls himself like a productivity, like what did he call it? It was like a recovering productivity geek or something like that. Which I can totally relate to because one of my major struggles with parenthood is that like I used to be so fucking productive, Shanna. Like, I could get shit done. I could get to my inbox zero and I could take care of everything on my to-do list. And it's been so hard adjusting to that, especially with two kids. Like, with one, I feel like I could make do. with two, I just felt like I was drowning, you know, in stuff. And this book really helped me feel like that's OK. And it's the to do list is never going to end. And he has all kinds of like empirical stuff he can tell you that like I don't remember right now because my brain is still mush. But yeah. But anyway, four thousand weeks by Oliver Berkman. Yeah. Get it.

Listen to it.