Postpartum Depression and Anxiety: Shanna’s Story – Ep. 195

Laura

Welcome to Big Fat Positive with Shanna and Laura. This week we have our weekly check-ins. We have our special segment, Big Topic, where we talk to Shanna about her experiences with postpartum depression and anxiety, and we close with our BFPs and BFNs for the week. Let's get started!

Shanna

Hey everyone, welcome to the show. This is episode 195. Hi, Laura. Hi, Shanna. How are you? What's going on in your world?

Laura

Oh, things. Things are going on. So let's see. I may not be making a lot of sense because one part of my check-in this week is that Mr. Sebastian, my one-year-old, is waking up super fucking early these days. Like how early? Like 5 a.m. to 5.30 a.m. Yeah. So painful. It's the worst. I mean like I guess 3 a.m. is worse but at 3 a.m. you know like there's a hard line in the sand right like you're not getting up it's 3 a.m. right like you're for sure going back to sleep. 5 a.m. is trickier because it's like well i don't think he's gonna go back to sleep but i gotta give him a chance and like i've been trying to do the check-in thing that's not working like basically we'll just check in for an hour i'm trying to like hold six a.m is like the line right right but he doesn't go back to sleep so then i'm just like listening to him cry intermittently and it's not like

Shanna

So painful. Does he have anything in bed to play with while he

Laura

is awake so i've tried a couple things i've tried putting water in his bed to see if that'll help him go back to sleep he doesn't seem to notice it in the morning he'll play with it at night and then put it down like he fell asleep a couple nights like hugging his water cup that's cute My boys are very into their water, I have to say. They're both very much obsessed with water. But yeah, in the morning he didn't touch it and I tried to put like a soft plush toy in there and he wasn't having that either. Maybe I should try a book or something.

Shanna

I was going to suggest books. I remember kind of like lining the edge of the crib, you know, kind of tucking a couple of books around and then like she would wake up in the morning and I don't know who knows if she did or not. I don't even remember it way back then, but maybe that would help.

Laura

I feel like I should get some of those indestructible books though because he is gnawing on everything. He's got those like chipmunk teeth right now. You know, he's got three on top and three on bottom. So he's like lopsided. But and they're sharp. Oh, my God, those baby teeth are so sharp. And so I'm a little afraid of putting a board book in there because it'll probably be gnawed down as though a beaver had entered his crib.

Shanna

Yes. You know what? I have a bunch of those hello magazines that I got for Cece when she was a baby, and they kind of have those indestructible pages. They're like not quite... paper, not quite plastic, they're like in between. Maybe I should give those to you. Maybe you can read magazines in the morning.

Laura

That would be amazing. And yeah, I would take those off your hands for sure. So next time we see each other, we should do that. So yeah, so just generally tired in that respect. But also daylight savings is coming up. So like, it's gonna be, if he wakes up at five now, he'll be waking up at six in like two weeks. So then I'm like, well, should I even bother trying to stretch it anyway? Yeah, it'll work out at that point. Yeah, that's tricky. Complicating factor. But that's just my own gripe because I'm tired and I am not a morning person. I feel like I've talked about this on the show, I'm sure, but like my number one fear in becoming a parent was like the early mornings, basically. I think I probably talked about it when I was pregnant. I just don't remember at this point. Do you remember having a conversation? Because I was like an extreme night owl. So this is weird for me.

Shanna

Yeah, you're doing it and you're still alive. Like you've survived.

Laura

Yeah, and I can have a somewhat meaningful conversation with you. So, yeah, here we are. But let's end my check-in on a more fun note. I'll stay with Sebastian for a second because talking about his little chipmunk teeth, he's eating a lot more solid foods now. I mean, we've been doing kind of haphazard baby led weaning with pureed pouches and stuff for a while like we I didn't really have a philosophy this time around I just kind of gave him food and But I had a revelation this week, which is we've reached the age Which is apparently like 12 months in three weeks where I cannot have any food of my own without sharing with him Oh, really? He wants it all? He gets so mad, Shanna. So, like, we'll sit down, I'll put him in his little high chair, and I'll sit next to him, and I'll be having my food, and I'll give him his food.

Shanna

Yeah.

Laura

But it's also annoying because it's like, can I just have something for myself?

Shanna

That still happens in my house with CECE. It's like, no, I don't want to share this Jersey Mike's sub with you. This is my special meal. Eat your peanut butter and jelly. So I have to like go hide now if I want to eat anything for myself. I've definitely hid in the kitchen in like a leftover Jersey Mike sandwich. I'm like, they're not getting their grubby hands on this.

Laura

It's mine. So funny. I want a sandwich for lunch. I think I'm going to do that. Yummy. Yummy, yummy. Anyway, those are my check-ins this week. And yeah. Sounds good. Real mixed bag there. Real mixed bag.

Shanna

Yeah, indeed.

Laura

But I want to hear what's going on with you this week. How are your girls?

Shanna

Oh, well, we're fine. Cece is still three and a couple months and she is still waking up every night and getting me up and I... What the heck? I haven't felt this like sleep deprived since I had a newborn. I mean, it's not like I'm up all night, but like getting woken up a couple times and then I go you know, put her back to bed, and then I'm having trouble falling back asleep. And it's just like, my sleep is so bad. And I've been logging like how many nights in a row I've had interrupted sleep. Yeah. And it's been 21 nights in a row. Oh my God. That I have not had a full night's sleep. And I'm just like, ugh, I'm too tired to thrive. Like I'm talking to my therapist about how he's like, I prescribe you an active lifestyle. I think you're at your best when you're active. And I'm like, well, I do too, but I have no goddamn energy to do anything. I don't even want to walk.

Laura

Now, is co-sleeping with your three-year-old safe? Like, how do you make this kidding? I'm just, I'm still in, like, all the baby forums, and so any time I hear about co-sleeping, my brain immediately goes to, like, all the debates that happen around it. So I'm just imagining you, like, you know, Steve curled around CECE in, like, a C position.

Shanna

No blankets, no sheets, completely flatbed.

Laura

Oh, no, no, no.

Shanna

Complete opposite of that. All the blankets, all the sheets, everything.

Laura

Well, I feel like you got to do what you got to do, right? If that is what it takes to get a good night's sleep. I don't know. But also, you're talking to someone who slept with her mom. Like, I slept in my mom's bed until I was like nine, so.

Shanna

Oh my gosh, that's right. Yeah, yeah, true. So I don't know what's gonna happen from here, but this is just a little temporary update on that whole crazy situation.

Laura

So I was watching TikTok recently, as I do. As you do. And as I do. And someone posted something about how their therapist, it's funny because it's so on the nose, the algorithm knows what we're gonna talk about. She was saying how she was telling her therapist how she knows she needs to go for a walk, but she just like does not have the energy to go for a walk. Like she just can't get out of bed some days. And her therapist recommended that instead of like going for a walk that she just flop around in bed like a fish instead. Okay. And the idea is that you get the physical exertion out and then you're also like doing something kind of silly that might make you laugh.

Shanna

Uh-huh.

Laura

And she said it worked. So...

Shanna

Okay. Just throwing that out there. I'll have to try the fish flop. I'm sure Cece would love it and think it's hilarious and be on board with that. So... This is what my life is coming to. Only I knew when I started a family that I'd be waking up sleep deprived doing a fish flop in the morning.

Laura

Ooh.

Shanna

Yeah, so remember back in September, I had Cece all signed up for preschool and then we pulled her out and she's been at home. Ever since. And I've known that I want to get her in preschool sooner than later. And we're waiting for Omicron Wave to kind of settle down. And what really pushed me over the edge of doing this is Steve got word that he needs to go back into the office at the end of March. He's going to have to go three days a week. OK. And it's far from here. So he's going to have a long commute there, be at work, I guess, all day, and then a long commute home. So who's going to be in charge of everything by herself all day for three days a week? Sasha. On top of having a full-time job. You're Chihuahua. Yes. She's so responsible. She really gets the kids out the door on time.

Laura

I'm excited for you. Thank you. Because next week is Augie's first, well, almost full week. You know, for whatever reason, his five days a week schedule starts on a Tuesday. Okay. It's because it's the first of the month. So anyway, but yeah, I'm like beside myself with how excited I am about this. And I feel like I can understand how excited you are because child care is amazing.

Shanna

Yeah. Yeah. So I've heard. And just thinking about it, I'm like, okay, Cece's going to be out of the house. Elle's going to be out of the house. And Steve's going to be out of the house for three days a week. I don't know what it's like to be alone in this house for more than 30 minutes, you know, for a couple of years. So this is just going to be a whole new territory for me.

Laura

You're gonna be dancing through the halls. You're gonna adorn yourself with bed sheets like you're going to a big gala. And you're gonna be singing, I could have danced all night. I don't know, I'm just- With my kid's karaoke microphone? Yes, just your freedom.

Shanna

No, except I won't have the energy. I'll just be fish-flopping in my bed all day by myself.

Laura

On Zoom calls, fish-flop while you're on Zoom calls.

Shanna

My coworkers will appreciate that. Well, that's exciting. Yeah. Wish me luck. Cross all your fingers and toes. We find a good spot. I will. OK. OK. I'll check in next time about how all those tours go. Can't wait to hear it.

Shanna

All right. So that's it for me. Should we move on to our special segment? Yes, I think we should.

Laura

Okay, we are back and our special segment this week is a big topic. And this is a big topic that we have had so many requests for. It might be our most requested big topic, I think, from our listeners. And the topic is going to be postpartum depression and postpartum anxiety. Yay.

Shanna

Yes, definitely.

Laura

Yeah. And so I just wanted to jump in. I'm kind of doing a little bit of an interview style with you, Shanna, because you've talked openly on our show about your struggles with PPD and PPA. But I feel like we've never gotten to sort of like a focused time to really talk about how it presented in you and like how you noticed it. So when you gave birth to L, did you experience any postpartum depression or anxiety? No, I didn't.

Shanna

And that is, as I was like thinking about my experience and making notes, that's the first thing I wrote down is that when I had L, I was on cloud nine. Like I was actually happier than I'd ever been and more motivated. Like I literally remember like, vacuuming like five days after giving birth and just being so happy to like clean my house and make it nice for my baby. And I just, oh, I loved every moment of it. It was kind of ideal. Even though I struggled with breastfeeding and that brought me to tears a couple of times, there was never an overarching sense of anxiety, negative thoughts and truths, intrusive thoughts, depression or anything. I was energized and I was really, really happy.

Laura

Almost like postpartum euphoria.

Shanna

Yes, yes, it was like quite the opposite of what I experienced with Cece.

Laura

And I'm sure the fact that she slept through the night from like six weeks didn't hurt.

Shanna

Exactly. Her temperament had a lot to do with it. I think Elle was a really chill, sweet baby, slept through the night, slept really well, very early on. Others would comment like how calm and chill she was. And of course at the time I chalk that all up to my great parenting skills so it fed into my own like confidence about myself as a mother. And but you know a lot of it did have to do with her temperament. I see that now right there's so much I've learned about myself and my postpartum anxiety and depression. In hindsight looking back on things and that's kind of why I wanted to wait a while to talk about it on the show. I never really talked a lot about it as I was going through it. It felt confusing and raw and I don't know. I just wasn't ready and now that like a lot of time has passed and I can look back.

Laura

Yeah. And so let's get into what happened. So you didn't have any PPD or PPA with L and you're flying high and then you had CECE and how did it change?

Shanna

Well, actually, I want to back it up a little bit because for me, I think that my anxiety started the summer of 2018 when Elle was about a year and a half old. I'd gotten pregnant and I had a miscarriage. that kind of set things off. Like I just ended up having the most stressful like five months of my life. It was, it was beyond what I thought I could handle. Like I had this miscarriage and that I initially like went into like, you know what, to have another baby, what I've got to do is have IVF. So I jumped into IVF. At the same time I was struggling with Sasha was having some behavior problems. Like she nipped L and I was like, so anxious about that, like I took her to that behaviorist and was trying all these different medications. So I was managing that. Then that apartment building next to mine caught on fire in the middle of the night.

Laura

And that also coincided with big hormonal shifts in your body too, I imagine, because you're a year and a half postpartum, then you get pregnant and have a miscarriage. And then you start IVF, which is just like a bombardment of chemicals, right? Or like hormones being shot into your body. So in addition to all the other life stresses that would already be a risk factor for anxiety, you add all that into it. Yeah, exactly.

Shanna

And so after that, you know, we're in our house. I'm settled into my new job and I'm going for like my transfer, right? To get pregnant with IVF and the first one failed and the second one took. And at that point, after all I'd been through, like I was just so scared to be pregnant. Like I was so scared to lose another pregnancy, especially when I tried so hard for her. So I was very on edge throughout my pregnancy and I probably talked about it a bit because we started the podcast right around that, right? I was nervous about going in for all my scans and just worried that the baby wasn't doing well. She was fine. Like the whole pregnancy was fine. The only thing that was wrong was my own anxiety about it. And so by the time I had her, I was so primed to have postpartum anxiety.

Laura

And so when did you realize that you were suffering from anxiety and depression?

Shanna

So when I was pregnant with Cece, I did start seeing the therapist because I knew I was very anxious and I wanted help with it. And she was very, I don't know, like she would often be like, it sounds like things are going fine. Like I don't know why you're feeling this way. It was really weird. She was a little dismissive. A little bit. And I think that that happens with me sometimes because I'm a really good coper. Like a lot of times people don't know what's going on in my mind or underneath because I come across as very together. And so I was like, well, I guess, like, I guess there's no reason for me to be worried and whatever. I dismissed it at that time. And I stopped seeing her when I had CECE because I was too busy.

Laura

She clearly missed the Rye Parenting Seminar where you acknowledge feelings no matter what they are. Yeah.

Shanna

Yeah, I don't think she was a rye parent. I don't know if she was a parent at all actually, so I don't know. So once I had C.C., I was obviously in love with her and so happy to have a newborn. But then the external struggles started with the breastfeeding, right? We talked about that on the show back then. She wasn't gaining weight. I was an inefficient breast feeder once again. had the instructions to cut shit out of my diet and like feed. And then after feeding, pump and do that around the clock. And that just made me sleep deprived. And obviously that made me stressed out and anxious and affected my mood. And Cici was a tricky sleeper. She wasn't like Elle. She didn't just magically sleep through the night. She was easy to put down, but then she would wake up in the middle of the night and just be inconsolable. And that's always the thing that like, caused me a ton of stress, right?

Laura

This is just what it's like to be a new mom with a baby that doesn't sleep. Yes. Yes, definitely. Okay, so you said this lasted for about five months. When did you realize that you needed help dealing with these feelings?

Shanna

So at about five months we sleep trained her more or less and I was getting better sleep. Steve volunteered to wake up with her in the middle of the night and I was getting better sleep. So that all fell into place, but like the uncomfortable feelings weren't going away. So that's when I was like starting to think maybe something wasn't quite right. Cause a while back I had joined a postpartum anxiety and depression like subgroup of my mom's Facebook group, right? Where people talked about this back when I was experiencing the anxiety of the fire and IVF and all that stuff. So I kind of had it in the back of my mind, but in my mind, like other people's situations were so much worse, right? Like what I'm feeling isn't serious enough. I'm just not coping well. Things will be better soon. So I kept telling myself that I'm not bad enough to seek help.

Laura

Oh, wow. So you would continue to suffer for a few additional months before you got to the point where you needed help or asked for help, I should say. Well, first of all, that's a lot. I'm sorry. You had to go through that, friend. And I can just imagine how helpless it must feel to be home alone with a screaming baby and then to have those feelings in your own body. It's got to be really scary. But I'm really glad you reached out for help. And I want to hear the rest of the story, but we do have to take a break. So I'm going to pull a Ryan Seacrest at the weirdest time and say, let's take a quick break and come back and hear how you got help and got out of it. OK.

Shanna

Yes. And just to back up for a second, I want to say that before I made the appointment, I went to Steve and I was like, I think maybe I need some help with anxiety and depression. And I don't think he understood why. And I think like I had kept so much of this under wraps, right? Like I don't wanna walk around telling people like these intense like thoughts I'm having in my head and everything and I cope really well and I come across as strong and together. So I think that's part of the reason I waited so long to get help, right? Because I don't think other people saw me that way. So I was like, well, if other people don't see me that way, then I'm probably, there's probably nothing wrong with me. So I really kind of had to stand up for myself and be like, I think I have a problem. I'm going to get help. And so that's when I called my therapist and I went into her.

Laura

Well, I feel like I say this a lot and I don't want it to come off as like Pat, but like I'm really proud of you. Like I feel like we talked about this back in episode 21 where you opened up about your infertility struggles and we had kind of gone back and forth about whether you wanted to talk about it and you were hesitant at first because it's such a private thing. But then you decided it was time to talk about it. And we have gotten, I think, more feedback than anything else about that episode with people thanking you for sharing your story with your fertility struggles and IVF because by sharing your story, you're helping so many people that you just don't even know right now who are experiencing the same thing or similar things or maybe wondering themselves like, maybe this isn't bad enough, maybe I don't need help, like they can listen to you and maybe get a little clarity.

Shanna

Thank you. I think another thing that made me hesitate for so long is that I had never been on anxiety or depression medication my entire life. I didn't really have those issues ever, and I think the stigma of it all really got to me. In my mind, I'm like, I don't know. I'm so scared to try medication. That's not for me. I can handle this myself. So worried to like step into that world. So that was really intimidating. And I don't even think that necessarily has to be a solution either, right? Like if I had maybe five months earlier, just gone back to my therapist and like at least worked with her on some stuff. maybe I wouldn't have had to seek psychiatrists. I don't know. I don't know how it should all go. But I just, I wish I wouldn't have been so scared of that whole situation. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely.

Laura

Like you, the stigma, you know, stigma is dangerous right this you didn't want to explore medication or even admit that you maybe had a problem because there's so much like stigma associated with that especially with being a mom you know this like idea of like I should just be able to handle it all you know it doesn't make me a bad mom for having these feelings are people gonna judge me. And then there's also a very real concern about, especially I think if you're a person of color, if I admit to feelings or thoughts of self-harm or even intrusive thoughts about harming the baby, are they going to take my baby away from me? which is not something to discount. So it's important to have a trusted provider and to understand that these intrusive thoughts are not an indication that you're a bad parent.

Shanna

Yes, it feels much better to be me now. Good. Well, Laura, I would like to know your experience if you had any with postpartum anxiety or depression. We don't have time on this episode, but I'm thinking maybe we should do another one so we can continue this conversation because it's so important and so interesting.

Laura

Yeah, I agree. Let's talk about it next episode and we'll just continue this conversation.

Shanna

Sounds good. In the meantime, should we move on to our BFPs and BFNs? Let's do it.

Laura

I have a BFP. All right. Okay. Do you remember how a few weeks ago I loaded the kids up in the car and drove them up into the mountains to try to find snow?

Shanna

Yeah.

Laura

And it had been like 90 degrees that week and we not surprisingly did not find snow. Right. Well, my BFP is that we had a redo this week. And we found some snow.

Shanna

Oh my god, how fun. Did you go up to the same place?

Laura

Yeah. So we drove up the two and Augie did not nap this time in the car. I was like, okay, I'm going to drive Augie and Sebastian up. They're going to like, Augie will probably fall asleep. It's the only time he naps is like when we're in the car. and we'll get away from all the construction noise because it was another big construction noise day. And maybe we'll find some snow because it had been really cold this week and it had rained. I was like, I could see the snow on the mountaintops like from my house. So I was like, okay, we can find some snow. Unfortunately, Augie was like not having the drive. And he was like, turn around. I don't want to drive. I was like, honey, are you sure you don't want to see snow? He was like, turn around. I don't want to drive. No. Yes. So we got up to like Red Box, which is where the Mount Wilson Observatory road goes off.

Shanna

Oh my God, they're so cute. All bundled up. Was it freezing?

Laura

It was really cold. It was actually like 32 degrees outside. Oh, burr. Yeah, literally chilly.

Shanna

That's the tiniest amount of snow.

Laura

That's hilarious. It's so cute. But I did send you one photo of Augie sitting in my front seat in my driver's seat with his tongue out. And I don't know if you can zoom in, but you could see little white specks falling from the sky there. What? I don't see it. Do you see it? Uh-uh. OK, look on his like knee.

Shanna

OK. Oh, is that a snowflake coming down? It's a snowflake coming down from the sky.

Laura

Oh! It was snowing the tiniest little bit. That's exciting. Yeah, but because Augie had never seen snow before, he didn't know that that's not just like the most exciting snow ever.

Shanna

Is that why his tongue is out to try to catch a snowflake? Yes. Oh, I love it. Oh my God. Oh my God, this rainbow baby carrier you're wearing is so cute. Oh, I love that.

Laura

It's a sling that I was actually gifted by my friend Tara from Mommy and Me class. She just didn't use it. And I never wore a ring sling with Augie because he didn't like it. It's super handy with two kids just to throw one in. And yeah, I really like that one. But anyway, that's my quick BFP. It was like a very short trip. It was barely any snow, but the kids really liked it. Oh, and we found one more very rare sighting. Let me send this to you. Augie didn't know what to make of it.

Shanna

I'm hoping it's not a bear. A pay phone!

Laura

Did he know what it was? He was like, this is a phone. Why is there a phone here? I was like, oh, this is a pay phone. It used to be the only way we could talk to each other. Oh, man, what a relic of the old days. I know, I know. So that was my BFP this week. Fun. Yeah. How about you? Do you have a BFP or a BFN? I have a BFP.

Shanna

Oh, good. Yeah. My BFP is that the girls are finally into watching movies, and I love it. It's so great. Elle, it took her a long time to come around to movies. They were too emotional for her. She's really sensitive. Because to be a good movie, you have to have a certain level of conflict, right? And that always distressed her. We tried watching Cars 3 when she was like four years old and within the first ten minutes like the car crashed or something and she was bawling and so upset she just can't handle the conflict. So we put movies on hold for a long time and she's just watched TV shows. But I've always been kind of sad because movies are really good. really good kids movies. The story's great, the music's fun, and I've been wanting her to be into it for a long time, and the time has finally come. Yay! Yay! Okay, so what did you watch? So, we have been watching Troll's World Tour.

Laura

We don't talk about Bruno. No, no, no. That's in my head 24-7 right now.

Shanna

The Luisa's song, The Strong Sister, that song.

Laura

I should like a drip, drip, drip, that I'll never stop. That's so good.

Shanna

God, I love that song. So that one's been stuck in my head. The Paw Patrol movie is CeCe's favorite. She watches it repeatedly and loves the songs from it. She plays that Adam Levine song from that movie all the time.

Laura

I have to say, I do not know that Adam Levine song. I didn't even know there was a Paw Patrol movie. And maybe I don't need to know. Like maybe, yeah.

Shanna

I don't know.

Laura

It's good.

Shanna

It's a good one. I do like the trolls in Kanto better than the pop troll movie. But it's nice because like there's more to talk about when we all watch a movie together, right? We talk about the story and then we listen to the songs and it's like a shared experience when they're just off watching rando episodes of things. I'm not really paying attention and I don't know what they're experiencing. So I like having the shared experience of a movie, and the songs are just fun. We're playing them all on repeat in the house, and they're kind of driving me crazy, but also, I know all the words to the Trolls songs now, and we sing them together, and it's fun.

Laura

Auggie has also gotten into movies fairly recently in the last couple months, and I love it too, because it's like, oh, we can watch a movie together. We watched Frozen together, and I actually like watching Frozen as opposed to, like you said, as opposed to like, a random episode of some show. So it is fun, and like you said, the music is great. His new thing, which I actually think is like very advanced, like I feel very proud of him for this, is that he's rewriting songs from movies with the words poop in them.

Shanna

Oh, I love it. My kids have a definitely song. We don't talk about poop. Absolutely. And like, there's a song that's like, trolls just want to have fun. It's like, trolls just want to go poop. And then they laugh hysterically.

Laura

A bunch of comedians we have. I still remember once we went over to your house like a couple months ago and Elle saying the Daniel Tyre potty song, but she was like, if you have to go potty stop and poop in your pants.

Shanna

Sorry about that.

Laura

Thankfully, he's never followed through. But I was just like, I don't want that. I don't mind the poop jokes, but please don't learn that this is funny. Oh, god, yeah. No pooping in pants, please.

Shanna

The influence of the older kids always screws up the little ones.

Laura

Well, I'm glad you're watching movies. And it sounds like you're avoiding most of the all my parents are dead movies, which is all of Disney's repertoire.

Shanna

Yeah, we're not watching the older stuff. Even Frozen, they allude to the death of the parents in that song. That upsets Elle, even still. We have watched Frozen. They do like Frozen, but she doesn't like that part. But anything in the past beyond that, I don't want to go there. I don't want to show them Lion King. Oh no, no, that's traumatic.

Laura

I'm still traumatized by that.

Shanna

Yeah, that one's rough. So we're going to keep it to, I don't know, maybe like 2016 and beyond.

Laura

Well, that's fun. Yeah, I'm so happy for you.

Shanna

Thanks. All right, so do we have time to read a five star review? Oh, we always have time, Shanna.

Laura

Here is a five-star review from Naomi. Naomi says, deep appreciation for Shanna and Laura. Five stars. All right, this is a good one, Shanna, ready?

Shanna

Yeah.

Laura

Listening to the show is an indulgence akin to eating chocolate or taking a bath. Like all forms of true self-care is enriching and nourishing. Thank you for being candid about your lives and helping validate so many of my experiences as a new mom. Naomi! Naomi, thank you! If there's anything I want in this world is to make other moms feel like I am their chocolate.

Shanna

Oh, you're my chocolate in bath, Laura.

Laura

Aw, Shawnee, you're my chocolate in bath.

Shanna

That's so sweet, Naomi. Thank you so much. Listeners, if you would like to leave us a five-star review, we might read it on an upcoming episode, so head on over to Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen and leave that review. Laura, if anyone wants to reach out to us about their experience with postpartum anxiety or depression, we absolutely want to hear from people and hear people's stories. So where can folks reach us?

Laura

We are on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook and TikTok at BFP Podcast. We have a website, BigBatPositivePodcast.com. And if you want to send us an email, feel free to throw a voice memo in there. Just send us a contact at bigfappositivepodcast.com. If you want to join a super supportive, super amazing group on the internet, just search for Big Fat Positive Community on Facebook and request to join because it's a private group. We don't want all of our conversations out in the world. And because it's private, answer those two membership questions so we know you're not a robot or a spammer. And then you'll be let straight through to our wonderful community of parents and people TTC and all the people who listen to BFB.

Shanna

Our show is produced by Laura Birek, Shanna Micko, and Steve Yager. Thanks so much for listening, everyone. Have a great week. Bye. Bye.