Sleep Training and Night Weaning – Ep. 166
September 6, 2021
Listen Now:
Laura talks about her attempt at sleep training her six-month-old baby and reports on the process of weaning him from nighttime feedings, and Shanna discusses her two-year-old’s new fickle phase. Also, in the segment “Today I Learned,” Shanna and Laura dive into the fascinating topics of sperm kings, morbid poison, the Virgin Mary and hydrotherapy. Finally, they share their BFPs and BFNs for the week. Shanna’s toddler is 2.5 years old, and Laura’s toddler is 2.5 years old. Laura’s baby is 6 months old.
Show Notes:
- Playtex Sipsters 360 Cups* Shanna loves these non-spill cups as a cleaner and easier alternative to the Munchkin 360 cups.
- "The Sperm Kings Have a Problem: Too Much Demand" By Nellie Bowles. Article in the New York Times about the "sperm kings" that Laura talks about in this weeks ep
- "In 1850, Ignaz Semmelweis Saved Lives With Three Words: Wash Your Hands" Article on PBS.org about the doctor who saved maternal lives with this now-common-sense advice, which Shanna discusses on the episode.
- The Lactation of St. Bernard Article and images about the saint who got his wisdom from the Virgin Mary's breast milk, which Laura talks about on the show.
- Hydrotherapy for Babies This article from DuJour.com talks about the new trend of baby spas that offer water therapy for infants, which Shanna talks about in this week's episode.
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Episode Transcript
Laura
Welcome to Big Fat Positive with Shanna and Laura. This week we have our weekly check-ins. We have our special segment. Today I learned where we talk about sperm, squirting, spas, and sanitation. And we close with our BFPs and BFNs for the week. Let's get started. Hi, everyone. Welcome to the show. This is episode 166. Shanna. Hi. Hi. So you're up. What is your check-in this week? How are those kiddos?
Shanna
Oh, they're doing well. Cece's still two and a half. And her new thing is she's really gotten interested in the idea of loving things and not loving things. OK. And we're really expressing this all the time. I noticed it started with her books. So before bed and nap, she's looking through her bookshelf and she's like, I don't love night, night little pookie. I don't love the blue truck. Oh, I love Paw Patrol. You know, it's like she's loving this. She doesn't love this, doesn't love this, whatever. And with food, she's announcing what she loves and what she doesn't love. And I mean, half the time it just seems so arbitrary. I'm like, oh, really? Today you don't love hot dogs. Okay. I see. Mm hmm. Fickle. Very fickle and it's emotional though when it is turned on me as a parent and same with Steve. It's like, I love mama. I don't love you daddy.
She's telling us constantly whether or not she loves us or doesn't love us.
I know. I know she's just too, and it's not like a truth. And Jenna Williamsbury would say these kinds of things are just an expression of how she's feeling in that second. You know, kids express how they feel in that moment, not an overall feeling. So she doesn't, like, not love daddy. Yes. But still, when your kids are like, I don't love you, mama, you're like, oh, come on. Do you know what I've done for you?
So it's been hurting my feelings and then making me feel wonderful when she tells me she does love me. So I'm on an emotional roller coaster, but here's what really put this all into perspective. I took her on a walk the other day in the neighborhood. Just me and her. We went through the neighborhood. We walked down to this elementary school that's nearby. It has a big grassy lawn. we can kind of walk up towards the front gates and explore and stuff. It's kind of like our neighborhood park. We've been calling it a park during quarantine because it's like where we can walk and hang out in the grass. And we get up there and we're walking around and she's like, what's that? And I said, oh, that's the nurse's office. She goes, I love nurse's office. And she's like, what's that? And I'm like, that's tape on the ground. She's like, I love tape.
Then they put her up on this low brick wall, and she's walking on this brick wall, and she sees something that a teenager has etched into the bricks. And she's like, what's that say? I said, oh, that says eat me, Ed. Oh, it says eat me, Ed, just realizing what it says as I'm saying. It says eat me, Ed. She's like, I love eat me, Ed. I'm like. Yeah.
Laura
OK. So I see. That's a good lesson that it's not a personal. like lifelong problem when she says she doesn't love you.
Yeah, exactly.
Shanna
It's like, okay, you love me and you love eat me, Ed. So I don't really know where I stand in all of this. So yes, she's fickle and she's funny. What about your guy is Augie expressing his adoration for things?
Laura
You know, it's not like I love this. I don't love that. It's a lot of I don't like that when we are mostly like when we're talking about food. But any time you know what it is, it's like he wants to be independent, right? And any time we ask him if you like something, the knee jerk reaction is I don't like it. Like yesterday, for example, he was having some salmon for lunch left over salmon. He loves salmon. Every time we put salmon in front of him, he like devours it. He eats as much as I do. Like it's the one thing he eats that makes me feel good about like what I've done parenting. You know, everything else is just like carbs and he won't eat a vegetable, but like he will eat salmon and I'm like, great. Fantastic. Yes. So I put this lunch in front of him yesterday. It was like mac and cheese, salmon and raspberries. He eats all the raspberries.
And then I'm like, you see, you have salmon right there. He picks it up. He goes, I don't like it. Puts it in his mouth, spits it out for a second, then puts it right back in and eats it. Like.
But he's like, I don't like it. So it's, I don't like it for anything just so he can like exert his power, I think.
Shanna
Oh, there is so much power exertion right now. CeCe, her knee jerk answer to anything is no immediately. It's like, oh, do you want to go to the park? No.
Laura
No.
Shanna
Yes. You know, I know she wants to and she changes her mind. Do you want a Z bar? That's their favorite snack, right? Z bar. Do you want a Z bar? No. Yes. She just has to say no every time to show that power.
Laura
That is exactly where we're at. So. God, funny. These little ones. And it drives you crazy because you're like, do you want to go to the park? And you know, they absolutely want to go to the park. They will love it. They're going to have fun. But he has to be like, no, I want to stay home. No, I don't want to put on my shoes. It's just like, God's sake, kid. You just get in the car. Like, you're going to love it. And of course, it's like, OK, it's time to go home. No, I want to stay at the park. I was like, OK.
Shanna
Yes. Everything has to be a push and pull. Struggle with these little people. Oh my God, they're so crazy. In the best way. Okay, so the other update about CeCe this week is the newest thing she's saying that I have to talk about because I love it. She says it all the time and it's so cute. First of all, she's become very aware of her burps. You know, she burps. But she mispronounces it, and it's so cute. Instead of burp, she goes, oh, I derped.
I derped. And then she's picked up on, I guess, me, and then Elle started doing it. Every time we burp, we go, oh, excuse me. Oh, excuse me. Now I notice Elle is doing that a lot. And so now Cece is doing that. So she's like, oh, I derped. Whoops me. So she doesn't pronounce excuse me. She says, oofs me, oofs me, oofs me again. And I just, I'm like, you could derp all day and say oofs me a million times and I could just listen to that over and over. That's so cute.
Laura
That is very sweet. Aw. I wish I had a recording of it. But that is really nice that she's picking up on like the social niceties as opposed to just saying no to everything.
Shanna
Yeah, so there's a balance there. It's just not in the areas you expect, right? She yells no in my face and tells me she doesn't love me, but she'll excuse herself after every tiny little burp. I don't know, don't figure. Anyway, that's about all for us this week. How are things going over there in your world?
Laura
Okay, so this week, things are going awesome. Finally. Woohoo! I feel like a cloud is lifting. Like, everything this week has kind of conspired and come together to make life better. And I'm here for it. I'm so excited. Awesome. Yes. Okay, so here's what all came together this week. First is that we finally have reliable hot water in our house, Shanna. What? You reported on that weeks ago, if I recall. Oh, it's been almost two months of just having what lukewarm water upstairs. Yeah. It's been a problem. Thankfully, I found the most amazing plumber. I love him. I'm going to actually just give him a plug. If you are in the Los Angeles area, you should hire Vahan at Twins Plumbing. I think they're out of Glendale. He was amazing. Everyone else just kind of like threw up their hands. I think we had three different plumbers out. We're like, I don't know. The water heater's working.
I don't know what's wrong. And they gave up. Vahan was like, all right, I'm gonna get under your house. I was like, okay, great. And he was like, okay, can't get under your house. It's too packed under there. I'm gonna cut holes in your drywall in your basement and get under your house. I'm like, great, do it. Whatever you need to do. He's like, now I'm gonna go up in your attic and test every pipe to see where this problem is happening. Cause it turns out there was like crossover. They had hooked a cold water pipe up to a hot water pipe when they like re-piped at some point. So that was causing a problem. And then he also went like the step further. And after he fixed that, he noticed it still wasn't perfect. And he's like, you have old shower valves. We need to replace them completely. So this was like a multi week process for him. He had to come back, I think four or five times. Wow.
But the man did it. He is like my favorite person in the whole world because he got us our hot water back and now it's working perfectly. perfectly so yay the kids can take baths easily like we used to have to run one faucet in another room in order to get hot water in Augie's bathtub like to get to get them to have a bath every night so we were like running multiple faucets by the way we're in a terrible drought and I felt awful about this but like need to bathe the kids Cory and I were taking lukewarm showers for weeks so this was awesome So thank you, Vahan, at Twins Plumbing in Glendale. Hire him if you have a mysterious problem in your plumbing. He's great. Does he install bathtubs? He does it all, Shanna. He says he does it all, top to bottom. So if you need someone. Excellent. I'm looking for someone. Oh, good. I'm going to give him a call.
Yes, I will send you his information for sure. So that's a big deal. Also, our new nanny, Eliza, started this week. Yay. So we're officially signed on with Eliza. So she's going to be coming every day in the mornings to take care of Augie and Sebastian. And Augie is starting preschool next week. So on the two days a week, he's there. She's going to be on baby duty and I'm going to have like even more time to myself. And I just, yes. Even in the three days she's been here, because she started Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, because my mom was here until Tuesday, and I was like, I don't need them to cross paths. My mom's just going to give her a bunch of advice I'm going to need to tell her to ignore. Sorry, mom.
But yeah, she's been really great and really helping me out already. So, like, that's a weight that's lifted. I'm excited about preschool starting next week. Like, it just feels like everything's coming up, Laura, you know? Mm-hmm. Sounds like it. Everything's coming up, Millhouse. Yes. And so, while my mom was here, she was here until Tuesday, I was able to set up Sebastian's room with Corey's help I hung the curtains the blackout curtains and he put together the crib and That meant that starting Wednesday like the day she left we started sleep training
Shanna
Whoa, that's a big update. Oh my gosh, tell us everything.
Laura
This is the main chunk of my update. So we started sleep training. We're doing the like modified firber method, the same one we did last time where you let them cry for like five minutes and 10 minutes and 15 minutes, but you go and you check in and you reassure them. And part of that is that at night when they wake up in the middle of the night, You also have to do those check-ins because you're trying to teach the babies that crying does not mean they get food, right? Crying does not mean they get breast milk basically. Right. That they need to put themselves to sleep. You know, I know sleep training is super controversial for a lot of people. It worked super well for Augie, and I was so excited to start with Sebastian. And I feel like I've done a lot of research, and I've read a ton.
And my feeling about it is that it is not a problem to sleep train, especially with these ones where you check in. But the evidence that I've read shows that it doesn't cause any problems with attachment. It's not neglecting your child. et cetera. So this is how I feel about it. If you don't want to sleep train your kid, it bothers you to listen to this. You can just fast forward for like five minutes, but I'm just going to talk about it real quick. So we started on Wednesday. So the first night he took about 30 minutes to fall asleep, but it wasn't even that bad. And then he woke up once around like 1 a.m. that first night and was up for like 45 minutes. You know what's funny is like with the first baby, I have the exact times all written down and noted. And this one I was just like, eh, we'll wing it.
Shanna
Oh, hashtag second kid problems. Oh, that's so true. Well, what about nursing at night? I know you are nursing at every wake up. Did you guys do some night weaning before you started sleep training?
Laura
So we didn't do it before we started sleep training. We did it as part of the sleep training. And I think that's actually the more interesting part of this journey because I'm not sure a lot of people who do the sleep training were nursing as much as I was like right up until the sleep training in the little like guidebook I had about it. It talked about how like if you have one or two feedings at night like how to wean it down and I'm like how about if you have like three or four or occasionally five like he was feeding so much. So If you're like me and you have a kid that is eating like four times a night and you have no idea how you're gonna wean it down, let me tell you how I did it. So the basic premise is that you initiate the feeding, not them. And that means you have to set an alarm for yourself, like 10 minutes before their usual time for feeding.
So you go in before they start crying for it, right? And do basically a dream feed. And that sucks because you're so tired already. And the last thing you want to do is set an alarm like three times a night to go in. But I knew it was for the greater good. So I did a dream feed like right before bed around 10, then I was sending alarm for 1 a.m. and an alarm for 4 a.m. Because I knew that we were going to start sleep training. I had started tracking like when he had been waking up for about a week to try to get a sense of like the baseline of when it was.
Shanna
Right.
Laura
So that's like 10, 1, 4. You know, it's like every three hours, right? Which is a little longer than he was used to going, but I figured it wasn't so much more of a stretch. You know, he was kind of doing every two hours. But I couldn't do, I couldn't do three. I have three in the middle of the night. So I would set the alarm. The first night when he cried those like 45 minutes, he of course woke up and started crying like five minutes before my alarm was supposed to go off. And the thing that I did, you know, based on this sleep-tuning method is you have to let him sue himself before you then go in and feed him, which can feel kind of cruel, right? Like, you're like, he wants the food. I'm going to give him the food. Like, why don't I just go in and give it to him now?
But the whole plan is to remind them that's not how they get fed right like waking up and crying is not a Solution to their problem like waking up and putting themselves back to sleep is the solution to their problem So the first night I had to listen to him cry and we did check-ins I made Corey do the check-ins because I knew that if I went in with my boobs and I left he would be like enraged Oh, yeah. So I made Corey do the check-ins. But like amazingly, night two, he didn't wake up in the middle of the night. He fell asleep in like 20 minutes initially and then like didn't wake up before my alarms. And night three, Shanna, he didn't even cry when I put him down. I put him down. He rolled over and went to sleep and then slept through the night except for my freaking wake up.
So I had to like what you do is in the middle of the night, you time your feedings and every night you like cut it down by two or three minutes.
Shanna
Uh-huh.
Laura
So as of tonight tonight is the last night I have to wake up at all like I've cut down to one the 4 a.m. Feeding right mm-hmm. I have to go in and feed him for three minutes tonight Okay, and then hopefully tomorrow night I will have my first full night sleep in Wow, I can't remember how long can't remember a lot of months lot of months. But I'm here to say that it is possible to pretty quickly wean off those night feeds. And, you know, my boobs weren't that, like, engorged in the morning either. They were a little fuller than usual, but because you're, like, slowly tapering down. It wasn't like I was waking up with the whole bed soaked, leaking or whatever, you know, just like a little extra full, but nothing terrible. So I highly recommend that method. But I do know people will just like go cold turkey too. And that's fine too, if that's what you want to do.
I mean, sleep is important, really, really important. And I'm just so happy to be getting more of it. I can't wait for it to be all over.
Shanna
And they don't need that food at night at this age. They will make up for it in the day and eat more during the day if they really need more calories. So you're not depriving him of anything with that.
Laura
Yeah, he's six months old. He's really like gone up in the weight charts since we've been treating his reflux i know there are some babies who their doctors will say no you need to keep the night feeds and there are some people who's like lactation consultants will tell them no you need to keep like one night feed for your supply and you know everyone's different but for me it was never a problem with agi i don't anticipate it being a problem with sebastian so we're just going for it and. So just like the sleep training the hot water and having Eliza come it's just like everything has come together and suddenly I feel like there's a light at the end of the tunnel. Oh that must feel so good so much relief so much relief so That is my week. I'm so happy to have a happy check-in finally yay
Shanna
That's wonderful.
Laura
But anyway, that's it for me this week. Should we take a quick break and come back with our special segment? Indeed.
Shanna
We're back, and this week's special segment is Today I Learned, where we report on interesting, fascinating, amusing things that we have learned recently about the world of pregnancy, childbirth, motherhood, et cetera. Laura, you're up first, and I'm dying to know what you learned this week.
Laura
Okay, so this is something that actually came out in January. It was an article in The New York Times, so I learned it a little late, but I think it's fascinating and it might have gone under other people's radars. I learned about sperm kings. Do you know about sperm kings?
Shanna
No, but I'm definitely picturing a big sperm wearing a crown right now.
Laura
Not quite. So the title of the piece was, The Sperm Kings Have a Problem, Too Much Demand. It's an article written by Nellie Bowles for the New York Times back in January. And it's about how there is like way too much demand and not enough supply, apparently. for sperm right now and i guess it's because of the pandemic because people like aren't going in to donate as much as they used to and also like i guess there's all kinds of reasons like. These recruited colleges and colleges were in session and all this stuff right so supplies down but demand is apparently like higher than it's ever been and okay. You know, because there's a lot of same sex relationships where like two women want to have a baby and they need a sperm donor or I guess there's more single mothers by choice that are choosing to go that route.
And you know, it's something that I have to say that I've been very privileged to not have to think about because I am a woman married to a man who has this resource for free in plentiful supply.
And apparently sperm at sperm makes is Crazy expensive. Oh, like it's a thousand dollars of vial or something and they recommend you get three vials because it can take like multiple cycles before you get pregnant, of course. And then if you want you to have biological siblings, you need to like buy up all the vials from one donor. Oh, right. And so the article says like some places recommend you have ten thousand dollars cash like ready to go. Wow. What? If you want that much sperm. Yeah. So a black market, if you will, has popped up for sperm donation. And it's not quite right to call it a black market because most of these people are doing their donations for free. They just get paid for their travel. And they'll travel to you so you can get a fresh sample, that sort of thing. And it gives you the knowledge of like the person's name, which is something you don't get with sperm banks.
So you actually like know who your donor is and like know more about them.
Shanna
Okay. So wait, so they're not getting paid. Are they doing it for free travel or just out of the kindness of their heart? What's the motivation for the donors?
Laura
Well, the article goes into the various motivations. Like, I think technically they're not supposed to get paid, right? Because it's illegal to pay for any part of a human, right? That's why you...
Shanna
Except for that $10,000 cash you're supposed to shell out for vials of it.
Laura
Well, that's for the storage facility fee. You're not paying for the sperm. You're paying for all the stuff that supported the sperm, right? Same thing with breast milk. You're not supposed to buy breast milk. You get donations. But if you're getting donated breast milk in a hospital, they are charging you a lot of money for that, or your insurance, I should say. But you're not paying for the breast milk. You're paying for all the stuff around it. So these donors, I guess I think some of them probably are doing it for the money. You know, it's like, I need a thousand dollars for travel or whatever, right? I'm sure that happens. I'm sure money is actually exchanging hands. But it sounds like there are just some people who like they truly want to do this.
Like they think that their DNA should live on, but they don't think they're going to have their own children like to raise so that they end up like don't making a bunch of donations. And it's really fascinating. Like it's this whole world that I didn't know existed. And apparently most of it's on Facebook. Oh, so I guess there are apps that you can use, but there's like Facebook groups for known donors, which is like the distinction between anonymous donors and known donors. But yeah, it's just like this whole world I never knew about. And I didn't realize it was so cut throat.
Shanna
Yeah, it really sounds like hot competition for this sperm.
Laura
I guess, I guess. And I feel like very privileged that I never knew about this, you know? I just feel like what I thought about with sperm banks was like what I saw in 80s movies where like women just like walk on down and just like pick up some sperm and la-di-da, that's it.
Shanna
Yeah, so easy. Or they just flip through a binder of profiles like blonde hair, brown hair. I'll take that one. You went to Harvard and you just get what you want.
Laura
Yes, exactly. But now it's like, you have to look at their DNA. Like, I guess they do like 23 in mes. And apparently, if you are going through a sperm bank, you have to check like multiple times a day because when they drop a new donor, it sells out like immediately like nuggets or Coachella tickets.
Oh man, hot demand. Hot demand. But listeners, I hope if you are in the market for some sperm, you're looking for a sperm donor that it's easy for you and that you don't have to worry about competing like this, it sounds super stressful. Yes. Alright, so that is my first today I learned. Shanna, what do you have for us?
Shanna
Today I learned the importance of washing hands. Just kidding. I mean, of course. Like, today. I just learned that today after 43 years. Obviously, the importance of washing hands has become so prominent with COVID-19 and everything. And this is actually where I stumbled across this story I'm about to talk about. I follow a profile called Dear Pandemic, which is like a collection of women scientists who write about the pandemic and give information and evidence and stuff about it. And they mentioned the story of a doctor back in the 1800s who really brought to light the importance of washing hands because believe it or not, in the mid-1800s, it was not common practice for physicians to wash their hands before seeing patients.
Laura
Yeah, that's super gross.
Shanna
Yeah, gross. And as you can imagine, that did not lead to good outcomes in a lot of situations. So in 1850 in Vienna, there was a high rate of women dying during or shortly after childbirth from something called childbed. That was the colloquial term. Really, it was called pureporeal fever and caused high fever and sepsis and lots of very unpleasant things for these poor women. This is from pbs.org. I got this information. They say, quote, in the mid 19th century, about five women in 1,000 died in deliveries performed by midwives at home. And there were actually more deaths at hospitals. They say, yet when doctors working in the best maternity hospitals in Europe and America performed deliveries, the maternal death rate was often 10 to 20 times greater. Yeah. So as you can imagine, women going into the medical setting to give birth were very nervous and worried.
And yeah, would often express their concern like, I don't want to. I would like to survive. I would like to survive. So as you can imagine, this was causing a lot of anxiety in women going into the medical facilities to deliver their babies. And at the time, there was a Hungarian obstetrician named Ignaz Semmelweis, and he realized what was causing these deaths. So at the time, it was common at teaching hospitals for medical students and their professors to perform autopsies on women who had died the day before of child bed and then go straight into the delivery room with the laboring women and do examinations on them, and they wouldn't wash their hands in between.
Laura
So they were just like typhoid marries themselves. Like they were just like, let me just get a bunch of bacteria or viruses or whatever, probably bacteria, right? And just carry it right on up to these perfectly healthy women.
Shanna
Yes. And there was no awareness that this was happening. So this doctor, Semmelweis, realized that these doctors were transferring what he referred to and what they referred to at the time as, quote, morbid poison, which was probably the bacteria. from the corpses to the laboring women. And nowadays, we know that that morbid poison was actually group A hemolytic streptococcus. Oh, dang. That's what was happening. Strep. Yeah, that's no good. No good. So he, smarty pants that he is, he started ordering his medical students and his junior physicians to wash their hands between the morgue and the delivery room. And he actually had them wash their hands in a chlorinated lime solution to get rid of
everything and go in and when he did that the death rates plummeted it just saved so many lives and it's so obvious now but it's fascinating to think that back then this was not common knowledge and something that simple really was making a huge difference.
Laura
Well, you know what it reminds me of in a way is like how we are all fine with wearing masks. Well, I guess I shouldn't say we are not all fine with wearing masks, but like the vast majority of us like find wearing masks totally normal right now, right? It's like you grab a mask before you head out the door and you just wear your mask when you're in the store or whatever. It's like no big deal. But two years ago, if you were like, oh, you're going to be wearing a mask indoors all the time, you'd be like, what? Why? That's crazy. That doesn't work. You know what I mean? But now it seems like such common, like everyone should know. My two-year-old knows about it, you know?
Shanna
Right?
Laura
But it just gets to show, right? We don't know everything.
Shanna
We don't know everything. There's just a long period of time where we don't know something, and then we do. And then we change course. So Dr. Semmelweis advocated for hand washing in the medical setting in this environment. And unfortunately, he was met with criticism and backlash and became a bit of a pariah because this notion offended a lot of the doctors. who didn't like the idea that they were the ones causing these deaths. And so it took a while for the mindset to really change on this. And he was very angry about it. He didn't publish his findings for 13 years because his advocating for it was met with such resistance. So it wasn't an overnight change. But between the 1850s and now, we finally have adopted that mindset. And thank goodness, because it's very important nowadays and always.
Laura
Yeah. Gosh, I wish people would get over themselves and just be like, oh, a simple intervention that doesn't do me any harm and just takes like an extra minute. I'll just do that. That might save lives.
Shanna
Yeah.
Laura
I see absolutely no correlation with what's going on right now.
Shanna
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Right.
Yeah.
Shanna
Anywho.
Laura
History repeats itself.
Shanna
Okay. So anyway, that's mine.
Laura
Do you have another one for us? I do. I do. So, okay, I just have to preface this by saying like, I know next to nothing about like, Catholic history, the history of the church. I'm not a practicing Christian. So if I say anything during this segment that like doesn't make sense or I get it wrong, please let me know. I'm learning. So let me know if I get anything wrong. Full humility going into this.
Shanna
Well, I hope you're not talking to me because I don't know anything about anything.
Laura
So the listening audience definitely please chime in listeners, please what I learned about is like kind of more like art history, but as you know, I'm sure a lot of Western medieval and Renaissance art history is actually like religious like Christian Catholic history, right? So I learned about this thing. Called the lactation of st. Bernard. Have you heard of this? No, okay. Maybe it's st. Bernard. I don't know. It's I think he was French so Bernard I don't know I can't So I actually saw an image pop up in one of my like breastfeeding groups that I thought was really Fascinating and interesting it looks like a Renaissance painting from what I know about art history and And it is a painting of a man in like church robes, clerical robes of some sort kneeling down. And above him is the Virgin Mary holding an infant baby Jesus.
And she has one of her boobs out and is squirting him in the face with her breast milk. Who? Jesus or the saint? Oh, no, no, no. Mary is squirting Bernard or Bernard or whatever his name is, right in the face with some breast milk, just casually. Okay. Yeah. And apparently this was the thing that was being depicted a lot in this era and in the medieval times. You can see a lot of like paintings of Virgin Mary holding her baby, one boob whipped out and she's squirting the sky in the face with milk. And in our context, it seems pretty funny because the idea of squirting someone with milk I think is actually, I don't know, kind of hilarious. I don't know why. It just strikes a funny bone for me. Probably because my whole life is so wrapped up in breastfeeding that it seems almost like a superpower that I could squeeze someone and squirt them across the room with breast milk.
And to see this revered figure, the Virgin Mary squirting some dude in the face with breast milk, I was like, what the heck is going on in this picture? What is the story there? So apparently, Saint Bernard or Bernard of Clairvaux was born at the end of the 11th century, and he was a reformer of the Cisterian order. All this stuff barely makes any sense to me. But that all sounds like important in the church stuff, right, in the medieval times. And he was canonized as a saint just 21 years after his death, which is apparently very fast. And the story is that he got his saintly wisdom because one day he was kneeling and praying and suddenly a vision of the Virgin Mary holding baby Jesus popped up in front of him And she squirted him with breast milk, like fed him from her own breast and that's how he got his like super naturally gifted wisdom.
Apparently there's a second version where she actually squirts him in the eye and cures an infection he had and that's like symbolic of like the vision he had, right? But it also cracks me up because if you go on any breastfeeding or even just mom group on the internet and post about your kid having any ailment, what's the first thing they tell you to do? Squirt it with breast milk. Squirt it with breast milk. Just squirt it with breast milk because it cures everything. This is the holy version of that, right? Virgin Mary shows up and she's like, you got an infection in your eye? Squirt. There you go. There you go. Oh, and also now you're a saint.
Shanna
Congrats.
Laura
That's amazing. So it seems like, I don't know, it seems like kind of a nice story. I don't know if anyone else knows anything more about... Oh, well, I'm sure. I should say that pretty much everyone else in the world knows more about Saint Bernard than I do. But if anyone has any fun facts to drop about him, I'd love to hear it. Actually, should I send you this? You need to see these images, right? Yes, please. Okay, there's a number of images in that post. And I should say this is from the website ChurchPop.
Shanna
Ooh, okay. That's a powerful stream. That's shooting a free-far distance. I mean, she is the Virgin Mary. Like, she does not have supply problems, right? No supply problems. Powerful letdown. Okay, that one's in his mouth. That one, I think, is in his eye. Wow, there's so many different depictions of this.
Laura
And also, I feel like it's so not prudish of the church. You know what I mean? Like I feel like at some point they probably stopped this because they were like, oh, we couldn't possibly show the Virgin Mary with her breasts out. But like it just goes to show that it wasn't a sexualized thing until we made it a sexualized thing, right? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Shanna
I like in how all of these Jesus is just totally chill with sharing his food with his breast milk. He is just down with this. I'm going to guess he was a chill baby, right?
Laura
I think he was. Sharing was kind of one of his major jams, I feel like. Yeah. He'd be fine with it. That tracks. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. But anyway, I hope that wasn't too blasphemous. I say this all with great reverence. I think it's wonderful and fantastic. So listeners, if you know more, please, please enlighten me. I want to know. But don't enlighten me this way. I have plenty of breast milk of my own. No need to squirt at me.
Shanna
So, Shanna, do you have one more for us? I do. But why don't we take a quick break and come back with it? Because it's a good one. Oh, kiddoke.
Laura
Okay, we are back and we have one more today I learned from Shanna. She says it's a good one, so let's hear it.
Shanna
All right. Today I learned that there are spas just for babies. Like relaxation spas? Yeah, yes, yes, day spas. The main treatment that happens at these day spas for babies is hydrotherapy. Okay. Have you heard of this? Swimming? Like what is hydrotherapy? Okay. Yeah. Good. It does involve a pool of water. Okay. I came across this. I don't know why this video popped up in one of my feeds, but it was a video of all of these infants floating in water with an inflatable ring around their neck. So the inflatable ring holds their head above water and their body dangles in the water. It is adorable and hilarious looking. I was just like, what is this? I need to know more. So I've come across a few different spas around the country and in Canada. So in Houston, there's one called Float Baby. In Canada, there's one called Giggly Panda. In Brooklyn, there's one called NYC Baby Spa.
And at these places you take your baby, it's mostly from like six weeks to six or nine months of age. You get your baby in one of these things, they get submerged in a pool of water that's about 95 to 98 degrees Fahrenheit, and just dangle in the water and let their little limbs like float and kick and relax. And that's their relaxation session.
Laura
Okay, so you're paying for a warm pool, basically. It sounds like, yeah, with an otteroo, right? That's what those things are, like the otteroo, have you heard of that? Otteroo? Yeah, the otteroo baby neck float. It's a thing that has been advertised Like extensively to me because I am the right demographic, but you can get it for 20 bucks according to this website. They show pictures of kids floating in the bathtub, but I guess a bathtub isn't deep enough for this hydro therapy.
Shanna
Also, let me ask this. Is the water in your tub purified through an ozone system? Oh, well, only the finest.
Laura
No, the water in my bathtub has only been warm for a couple weeks.
Shanna
That's right. That's asking a lot of you. Okay, okay. So, apparently, these are class sessions. I guess there's multiple babies floating, and that's the video I saw. Just a bunch of tiny little baby heads on these floaty devices. So stinking cute. But Laura, if you want your baby to have tub times so low, you can do a private session. And at this place, Float Baby in Houston, you can do a private session for 10 to 15 minute float for $150 for
session during the week or $195 on the weekend.
Mm, that's a lot of money.
Whoa.
Laura
Wow.
Shanna
Well, this might help take the sting out of that price tag. After the float, your baby gets an instructor-led neonatal massage, of course, because it's a day spa. From the parents, the parent has to do this, but it's using a custom blend of organic cold-pressed oils with vitamins. So you also get that element, too. You get a float and a massage. But you have to give the baby the massage.
Laura
That's what it says.
I mean, if this is something, I mean, it does sound lovely, but it also sounds like some rich people bullshit.
Shanna
Yeah, I think so. It is really cute, though, but I guess you could just buy a googly doo or whatever you call it and just float your own baby.
Laura
Yeah, for 20 bucks, get an otteroo, fill up your bathtub all the way and just get some essential oils. Actually, just get some coconut oil. But I say that I don't mean to judge anyone who's decided to do this, because I bought a fucking snoo for my baby. So I do rich parent bullshit, too. But yeah, I definitely think this is where I would draw the line. It sounds like something I want to do. The reason this is appealing is I want to float and then get a massage, which sounds like it would cost the same amount of money.
Shanna
I think so, yeah. Definitely jealous of these babies floating in the water for sure. But you have to look this up, hydrotherapy for babies. Look it up because the videos are adorable and you just like, we'll see little babies relaxed and snoozing on their little otteroos. Very cute. All right. Well, I can't argue with cute babies. There you go. So that's mine. Should we move on to our BFPs and BFNs?
Laura
Yeah, let's.
Okay, so we close every episode with our Big Fat positives or Big Fat negatives of the week. Shanna, what do you have for us? A BFP or a BFN?
Shanna
I have a BFP. Yay. Yay. For the longest time, we have been using the Munchkin 360 cups. Do you know which ones I'm talking about?
Laura
I know exactly. The ones where you kind of have to like bite and suck, but they're completely spill-proof and awesome.
Shanna
Yeah, the child can drink from any edge of the cup and it's spill-proof and we love them. Elle still uses them even though she is five and can use regular cups. I think it's a comfort thing. Like she really likes her milk in the morning out of these cups. Yeah. CECE loves them too. So we have a ton of these. We've accumulated over the years. But they have always annoyed me because you have to like peel the top rubber part off to wash it. And sometimes I have to like pry off the clear inner ring to keep that clean. And when I do this, like my hand gets all on like old chocolate milk that's been sitting in this cup for God knows how long. And it's just kind of a gross cleaning experience than I've always just sucked it up because these cups are really great. Well, I'm here to tell you there's something better out there on the market than the Munchkin cups. What? Yes.
We've had the problem recently also where the rubber part has started to crack. Some of them are old. Sometimes they chew on them, whatever. So I needed to get some new cups. And I said, hey, what kind of cups do you want? Because I'm just a sucker mom who has to ask my kids what they want, what they like. I can't just buy them something. And of course, Cece's like, Paw Patrol. And I'm like, oh, OK. And there's no munchkin 360 cups with the Paw Patrol design. Which is shocking. Which is shocking. Yeah, I was really surprised. There weren't any branded characters on the Munchkin cups. But what came up in my Amazon search is a 360 cup from Playtex. It's the same idea. It's a cup and you have the rubber edge and they can drink along any edge. It's spill-proof, but the top is just one piece. It screws in. You don't have to touch any gross rubber part with old chocolate milk.
There's no piece to peel off, no like three separate things to wash. It's just one lid that screws in. And it makes my life so much easier to the point where I got rid of all the munchkin cups because I never want to peel another gross lid off. And I bought like six of these play text cups because that's how I want to live my life now, the play text life.
Laura
Is it called something specific? Like how do we search for it? I asked because Sebastian has just started like having water with his like little bits of solid food he's been eating. And I've discovered that those are like kind of a really good first cup. for him, especially because he's a biter. So he likes to gnaw on things. So that made me think this week, oh, I should give him one of those 360 cups and it worked great. I mean, he still dribbled a bunch of water down. He's still learning. But his instinct is to bite before he sucks. So it's kind of perfect.
Shanna
Yeah, specifically it's called, I think the Playtex Sipsters 360 degrees. But if you just search for Playtex 360, a bunch of different options will come up. The Paw Patrol ones are really cute. And then there's a bunch of solid colors. There's some Peppa Pig and a bunch of different things. And they don't seem as popular. Like there are not as many reviews on these. So I think the Munchkin cups are just more prevalent, but I think it's a better design. And I'm really happy that we found them. So I don't have to peel off gross things anymore. Yay.
Laura
That's awesome. Okay, I'm going to have to look those up because our 360 cups are kind of getting old and need a refresh. So I will give these a try for sure.
Shanna
Do it. All right, Laura, what do you got for us this week?
Laura
Okay, I also have a BFP. All right. Because this week, everything's coming up Millhouse and gotta have a BFP. So my BFP is an activity I did with Augie that was so fun. And I can't believe it's the first time we've done it together. And that is tie-dying. Oh, cool. Have you tie-died with the girls?
Shanna
No, I try to avoid messy art projects. That's right. I'm the worst. Okay. Well, maybe I'll give it a try. Tell me about it.
Laura
Well, I should say it helps that we have a grassy backyard. So we just kind of like went out back and decided to make a mess. I decided like, whatever, he's going to get dial over him. Hopefully it's not too bad for him. Right. Like I wasn't letting him just spray it all over himself, but he definitely got spattered a little bit. But so it was super fun. We actually just use dyes I had around already. Like I have a lot of dyeing supplies because I'll dye my own yarn and dye my own wool sometimes. But all of those supplies are like a little too advanced. But what I did was just use some RIT all-purpose dyes, which are the kinds you find at Joanne's Fabric or even the grocery store sometimes you can find RIT dye. And I just had like a couple colors around. I had a teal, an indigo, and this like coral, I think was the color that I had. So I just mixed them up into little squirt bottles.
I didn't like get too precise about it. I just kind of put a little bit of the dye and a bunch of water and like a tiny bit of salt in it. I got some plain t-shirts and onesies from Target so we could like do the whole family. And we just like decided to let Augie go to town. on them. Oh my god, how fun. To be fair, I wanted to do some. I thought we would do it together, but it became the Augie show. Oh yes. It turns out that I got to like do the rubber banding part of the tie-dye, but I did not get to do the dyeing part of the tie-dye.
I really wanted to, because as you know, I love crafting, but every time I tried to grab one of the squeeze bottles, Anki was on it. And he was like, no, I want to do it. I want to do it. So he ended up stripping completely naked too in the process because it was wet. And so we had like a very hippie afternoon.
But naked, doing his tie-dye, doing his art. I'm going to send you a picture. I'm going to send you the most PG-13 picture I have. Unfortunately, listeners, I won't be able to post these on the internet because I'm not about to post my baby's bare butt on our public Instagram account. I'm going to also send you a picture of him happily bathing in the tub where we were rinsing the tie dye. Oh my gosh, how cute. It looks like he's having a blast. He had so much fun. I got like a four pack of t-shirts from Target for him and a five pack of onesies. And we made a whole bunch. And you know what actually inspired it was that Sebastian needed some more onesies. He just kind of upgraded to nine month clothes. And I was like, we need a bunch of onesies and I didn't want to just buy a bunch. I was like, you know what? We can make a project out of it.
So here I'll send you one of the t-shirts after it was all done. Oh, that's adorable. That's perfect. It's so cute. Like they actually turn out really, really well. I'm sending you another one of his Designs where he like refused to use any color other than the coral on this one shirt And I was like why don't we do multiple colors like no I want red I only want red and it actually ended up being really cute like Yes, that looks awesome artistic vision was great. So I highly recommend doing some tie-dye with your kids. I found that two and a half actually wasn't too young for it. I thought it might be. But he had a really, really great time. And now we have a bunch of new shirts and onesies. And you have matching for the family? The whole family has some? Yeah, so I got a shirt for me and I got a shirt for Corey.
So we have not gotten our acts together to take a picture of all of us in our matching shirts. Here, I have one of Augie and Sebastian together. But hopefully someday before they grow out of these shirts, we'll get all together and take a picture.
Shanna
Oh, cute. Yes, you guys need to get together and take a family photo in your matching shirts that you're two-year-old made. Absolutely.
Laura
Yes, we really do. But it was so, so fun and I highly recommend it. So that was my BFP this week.
Shanna
Awesome. I will give it a try in our house.
Laura
Do it outside. That's just a tip.
Shanna
Oh, good. Yes, true. Outside of our house. All right. Well, I think that's our show. Listeners, if you have any interesting today I learned, you know we would love to hear them. Laura, where can they reach us?
Laura
We are on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok at BFP Podcast. We have a website, BigBatPositivePodcast.com. If you want to send us an email, you can always include a voicemail in that email. Just send it to contact at BigBatPositivePodcast.com. And finally, if you want to join the coolest group of people on the internet, just search BigBatPositiveCommunity on Facebook, request to join, answer the two membership questions so I know you're not a robot, and then you will get sent straight through to all the amazing conversations we're having in there.
Shanna
If you love our show, please rate and review us wherever you listen to podcasts and spread the word. Let your friends know about BFP, our shows produced by Laura Birek, Shanna Micko, and Steve Yager. Thanks for listening, everyone. Bye. Bye.