Raising a Child With Autism: A Parent’s Perspective – Ep. 150

Laura: Welcome to Big Fat Positive with Shanna and Laura. This week we have our weekly check-ins, we have our special segment, an interview with Ali and John from the Sensory Overload podcast, and we close with our BFPs and BFNs for the week. Let's get started! Hey everyone, welcome to the show. This is episode 150. Shanna is episode 150. What? 150? That feels like a huge milestone. Holy shit. I guess we should celebrate. Okay. We should celebrate by finding out what's going on with you this week. Shanna: Well, if that ain't anticlimactic, I don't know what is. I was ready to pop some champagne, have a party. Laura: Oh, you have champagne? You did not mention that. Shanna: Oh, yes. Well, I do. Probably left over from a gift someone gave me like two years ago because I'm so lazy about using gifts that people give me. Anyway, I digress. Yes. Let me tell you about what's going on in our house. Cece is still two years, four months. And here's something that really took me by surprise this week. She has entered a brand new phase of separation anxiety. Oh, I didn't know that that was a thing that we are still dealing with. Yeah, me neither. I thought we were over that and especially since Steven, I literally go nowhere. Laura: Yeah, I was gonna say like what separation are we even talking about? Shanna: Right? So that's what's really shocking here. What it is, is she gets completely upset and freaks out when I leave a room. What? Yes, I'm talking from the living room to the kitchen. If we're hanging out in the living room and I want to go refill my coffee, it is a huge ordeal. It's like, no, no, mama, no. And she either needs me to pick her up, but if I can't pick her up, she throws a fit and has a tantrum on the floor and screams and cries. If I try to go to the bathroom, forget about it. I have to deal with huge feelings every time I exit a room. It's wild. Laura: You know what? It's so funny because I think we've been dealing with the same thing and I just assumed it was baby brother related. But now that you mention it, okay, we live in an open floor plan house, right? The kitchen and the living room are the same. But there is a baby gate between it. And for like a week or so, every time I need to go into the kitchen, which mind you, it's just through the baby gate. So clear view from the living room. Auggie is like, mama coming, mama coming. And I'm like, mama's literally right here. And then he wants like in the mornings when he has boo boo time, in the morning I have to have coffee. And I'm like, mommy has to have her coffee. And he goes, Auggie have coffee? Auggie get coffee? Like he has to come with me. And I've been like having him on my hip. But I didn't attribute it to separation anxiety. I just assumed it was like mommy deficit and missing me. So this is kind of a revelation. How did you figure out that it was like separation anxiety rather than just other kind of anxiety? Shanna: Right. Well, she really only freaks out like that when I leave a room, and she does it to Steve to a certain degree too, but it's mostly for me. And it just is reminiscent of when she's had separation anxiety before, like just freaking out when we're not together. I don't know for sure if this is an age where they're supposed to go through that kind of thing. I don't know. I didn't do any research on it, so I don't know. Laura: Yeah, I was going to ask if you had heard from other parents, but that's super interesting. Shanna: Yeah. So what have you been doing to deal with it? Well, let's be honest, most of the time I give in and pick her up and I take her with me through all of my activities. But sometimes it gets really bad because she won't stop being upset. She won't calm herself down in enough time to go into the kitchen and get coffee peacefully. She gets herself so worked up that whatever we do next is full of drama. The emotions continue. And this is especially true when I try to go to the bathroom. And look, I have been a parent for five years now. Peaceful pooping has gone out the window for me, right? Like, as a mom, you know how it is. Like, your kids just... They're there. I don't know what it is. They're always there. Steve does not have this problem. I swear to God, he can have peaceful 20-minute poops and like, I can't even get two minutes without... of visitor. Laura: Lately, I've just been wearing Sebastian a lot, you know, in his little baby wrap. So yeah, pretty much all my bathroom visits involve having a baby not just in the room, but like literally on top of me. Shanna: It's just so lovely. So the new iteration with the separation anxiety is that if I get up to go to the bathroom, you know, I'm like, I'm going to the bathroom because God forbid I just leave a room. I have to announce what I'm doing and where I'm going so everyone knows. So I'm like, I'm going to the bathroom and she's like, No, no. If I take her with me, she's so upset that I was going to leave her, that she comes into the bathroom with me and like stomps on the floor and, you know, lies on the floor kicking and screaming and having a fit. So that's the circumstances I'm going to the bathroom. If I'm like, Steve, you just watch her. I'm going to the bathroom. She will come down after me. I'll get into the bathroom, close the door, and then she just pounding on the door and screaming on the outside of the door. So I'm either going to the bathroom with her screaming and kicking on the inside of the bathroom or the outside of the bathroom. And that's my life now. Laura: Pick your poison. Yeah. Yeah. That sucks. I wonder if it's like other separation anxieties though where it goes away, you know, it's just a little phase. Shanna: I hope so. I really hope so because my plan for her is to get her into preschool in the next few months or so. And if she can't even handle me leaving a room, how is she going to handle me leaving her at preschool? Oh my God, it's going to be so hard. Laura: Yeah, I know. My mom was very happy to keep telling me this story over and over when she was visiting because I was talking about maybe putting Auggie in preschool too as we discussed on the show. And she's like, oh, you went to preschool for a day. And I was like, what? And I guess I was so attached. It was to her and to my grandma that I only lasted one day in preschool. I couldn't handle it. So, but it happened to be picture day. So I have pictures. Shanna: You have photo evidence of that fateful day where you just like red eyes, puffy and everything. Laura: You know, it's funny. Now that you mentioned it, I think I was a little red eyed enough. I'll have to look at it a little more closely next time I met my mom's house. How old were you? I probably four, right? Because when you go into kindergarten around five, is that right? Shanna: Yeah. Laura: Yeah. So it must have been four. So I don't know. But then again, part of me is like, you could have tried for a second day, you know? Like maybe that first day was hard and maybe the second day would have been okay. But yeah. Shanna: Well, that's the way it is. That's what I learned from my experience putting Ellen to daycare for the first time. I mean, granted, she was a year and a half. So the age is a little bit different. But It was hard. She screamed and cried and the daycare provider was basically like, don't worry about it. It's normal. She'll get used to it. You just go. I'm taking care of her. And I was like, okay. And it was like that for about a week or so maybe. And then the daycare provider was right. Like it just got better. She suddenly was like happy to be dropped off and she loved going there. But it was a transition that we had to go through and it was hard. And I think that's totally normal. Laura: Yeah. And I have heard from a couple of friends who have kids around the same age as our kids that because of the pandemic and because our kids are so starved for like other kids that they're like running into the arms of the take care providers. Really? Yeah. I've seen a couple of friends post on Facebook like, oh, I thought my kid was going to be sad about going to daycare or preschool, but nope. They're sad about leaving and they don't want to come home. Shanna: Okay, well, maybe that's one bright spot of the pandemic. Maybe. Because our children want to go to preschool. We'll see. We'll see. Laura: But until then, you have a constant companion. Shanna: I do. And the thing is that it's draining. I love her, obviously. And God, I want all the baby hugs I can get. But I can't deny the fact that it is draining and exhausting to be clung to like that with such big emotions. Like, you know, she's loud. I've talked about that so many times on the show when she pitches a fit, it's not just like kind of whimpering. It is like full blown, 100 decibels screaming. And it just like pierces my ears and I'm like, you know, absorbing all that energy and emotion many times over in a day. So I'm a little bit more drained than usual. understandable, understandable completely. Yeah. Laura: Yeah. Shanna: But yeah, that's our week. Otherwise, she's fine. She's doing great. She's a sweetie, little cutie pie as usual. But yeah, that's our week. What's going on with you guys? Yeah. Laura: So Sebastian is 10 weeks old and Auggie is two years and three months like it was last week. And so yeah, so with Sebastian, one thing that is starting to happen is his naps are starting to get a little harder. Like up until this point, I don't know what you did in the newborn phase, but for me, I haven't really been like tracking naps yet. I've just kind of been baby wearing a lot and sticking them in the snoo if I think I have a chance to get a nap in the snoo, but not really paying super close attention, right? Like newborns are just, their sleep is all over the place. you never really know what to do. I know there's some people who get on a really regimented schedule from day one. I've never been able to do that with a younger kid. With older kids, I'm all about the naps. But with the new war nice to go with the flow. But I've decided I need to start to pay attention. Because as of right now, I have no idea exactly how much he sleeps. during the day, like I don't have my data going like I like it. Like I haven't been tracking all of his naps. I've just been tracking nighttime sleep and it's starting to make me realize that I don't like get what's going on with him. So I'm starting to track naps and I'm starting to realize that the afternoon naps are starting to get really, really hard. So morning nap, like especially that first nap, he just falls right asleep and like will sleep for anywhere from like an hour to almost two hours. It's really great. In the afternoon, if I'm not baby wearing him, he will not nap. Like from two or three o'clock onward, it's just, you know, whatever I can do to get him to nap. And that makes me think he's starting to like, quote unquote, wake up more, right? Like he just went through this leap. And so now he's like, I don't know, just a more complex little human being. Oh, right. Like he's waking up to the world more. Exactly. And physically, like both. He's like waking up, waking up to the world and waking up from sleep. So at this point, I'm like baby wearing for like six hours a day. Maybe that's too, not all the time. When he's awake, I'll take him out. But it is starting to get really tiring. Like my back is starting to hurt. And yeah. So I know what you mean about like having a constant companion. It's non-stop. Mine is a little less whiny, I think. I think so. Probably weighs less physically too. Yes, indeed he does. I don't know how much he weighs actually, but he's probably still under, I think he's probably around like 10 pounds. So, which isn't too bad. But if you add an extra 10 pounds to your body all day, it can get a little exhausting. Yeah. But yeah, so anyway, I just wanted to mention that because I feel like it kind of took me by surprise even though I'd been through this before. Like, I've forgotten that afternoon naps were hard and evening. Like, I forgot about the witching hour. The witching hour. Yes. Ooh. Which for people who don't know, it's like, I don't know, four to 10 p.m. or whatever when your kids are just, it's before bedtime, but they're not like asleep yet unless everything is hard. So, Yeah, I think because they're tired from the day and just cranky. Yeah. But so I'm in baby wearing land right now. And I have to say, I'm not too mad about it. It's really sweet. So snuggly. It's so snuggly. And I, it's so funny. I was talking to Corey about this, how with Auggie, I felt like the newborn phase went so slowly. Like it was just, I feel like it took a really, really long time and You know, I liked it, but it was just sort of I was so eager to get to like milestones and all this stuff and this time it feels like it's going so fast and I think part of it is just because I don't have all that time to just sort of like sit and be with Sebastian because we're constantly running around with Auggie and doing his nap time and dealing with his emotions and It's just more jam-packed, right? Like there's just more stuff in the day. And so I feel like this newborn face is just like flown by. I mean, he's 10 weeks already. Like he only has two more weeks of being a newborn. Wow. Just an infant. Shanna: That did go fast, and I'm not even living it. I'm just hearing about it. Yeah. And it's going fast. Laura: It's going so fast. And so because of that, I think I really am trying to savor all those little moments more. You know, I definitely can tell. It's like I have like anticipatory nostalgia. I know I'm going to be nostalgic for those days where he was asleep in the stretchy baby wrap. So I'm just sort of letting it go and enjoying it, even if I can't get things done around the house. The house is a disaster. Shanna: Well, the baby snuggles are fleeting, as you said. They are. So take the time to appreciate them. I still do that with CeCe. Because, you know, she's two, but she's still baby-like compared to Elle. And every now and again, like when she's on my lap and we're reading stories before bedtime, I'm just like, oh my god, this is like my last baby. These little kissable chubby cheeks and little snuggles and, you know, being able to really sit on my lap and do this kind of stuff is going to pass soon, quickly. I know because it already did with Elle, right? And so I really try to take a moment and pause and appreciate those moments and savor them because yeah, it goes really fast. Laura: I know. Ugh, I'm getting all choked up. Anyway, let's move on to something to make me not choked up. Okay. The days are long, but the years are short. So, okay. So speaking of my house being a disaster, as we discussed like two weeks ago, I think, we have officially decided to start house hunting. So we have started going on home tours. Wow. Yeah. So I guess because of COVID, you used to be able to go to open houses. They don't have open houses right now. So you have to like schedule a specific time and show up. And we've been trying to schedule them for times when Auggie is with Amber so that we can just bring the baby. But you know, the market is crazy and you have to get in to see these houses right away. And so we've ended up taking both Auggie and Sebastian on a bunch of like house tours, which is actually really fun and very cute. Auggie is being adorable. So he shows up and like just completely charms the socks off of anyone who's showing us the house, which is great. You know, like the seller's agent or sometimes the homeowners are there and he's just like walking around. Emily, my realtor and my friend, she gives him a little like folder to hold so that he like feels important. Like he's holding the folder with all the house stats and stuff. And he just walks around in his little mask. And it's very cute. But the best part of this is that now when we get home, Auggie has started giving home tours. Oh yeah? He walks into a room and he goes, so this is the kitchen. It's nice. It's big. And he does that with every room. He walks into his bedroom. This is the bedroom. It's big. Just totally copying what we've been doing. Shanna: Oh my God, I love it. He's like, this is an open floor plan. Yeah. You might need to do some remodeling and updating. So this is the tankless water heater. Laura: I think he's actually really imitating Emily, our realtor, because she gives really great home tours, and he's just very into it. So that's been fun. And we officially put an offer in on a house. Wow, you guys didn't waste any time. Well, in this market, you have to do it right away. So I'm not holding my breath on this one. We found this house in Glendale that's huge, like 2,600 square feet or something. And it has a flat, I know it's almost too big, like I'm worried it's too big, but it has a flat backyard with grass and Auggie was there on this particular home tour and he was just like running in circles on the grass, laughing his head off. He was so excited by it. And that kind of made us really want to put an offer in, you know, seeing how happy he was there. I mean, really, he was just laughing, laughing, laughing. And then he would like fall down the grass and just die laughing and then get up and run more. So we put an offer in. We haven't heard anything. It's been a couple of days. So I'm starting to get pessimistic. And with this market, you know, you never get the first one you put an offer in on. So. Not holding our breath, but it's been fun and it's a little scary. And yeah, I don't know what's happening, but hopefully, hopefully we'll be moving soon. I don't know. We'll see. We shall see. Shanna: How do you feel about the idea of possibly doing that while you have a newborn? Laura: Terrible. Terrible. Absolutely terrible. I don't want to do it. I don't want to do it, Shanna. I just want to wake up one morning and be in a different house. But it turns out that's not how it works. Yeah, there's a lot of work involved in moving. What the heck? I know. Well, you know what? That's a bridge to cross when it presents itself in front of us, because we're getting ahead of ourselves. You know, the one good thing about having a small house is we don't actually have that much to pack up, I think. Oh, that's true. Famous last worlds? I don't know. Yeah. But anyway. So that's what's going on with us. We have the software in and we're like waiting to hear. Every day we're like, have they written back? Have they written back? We haven't heard anything. So I don't know if they're ghosting us or what. Shanna: Well, I can't wait till next week to find out. Laura: Yeah, me too. But anyway, I don't want to belabor any of this because we have a fantastic interview for our next segment. And I think we should get to it. Let's do it. Shanna: We're back, and this week we have a very special interview that I'm very excited about with two of our very good friends, John Nelson and Allison Locke. Allison is a writer and director, and John is a writer and a video editor. And they have started the Sensory Overload podcast, which they talk about their life with their amazing 10-year-old daughter Bethany. Allison and John, welcome to our show. SPEAKER_03: Hi. Thanks for having us. Shanna: Hello. SPEAKER_00: So excited to be here. Hi. SPEAKER_03: You forgot to mention how awesome we are and how amazing. SPEAKER_00: No, but we didn't get to do that yet either. So yeah, I just want to say, I'm going to say my big fat positive. I'm going to do it early. I'm going to say it's being on big fat positive. Oh, dang. Awesome. Laura: That's a very meta BFP alley. Yeah, you're welcome. That's what you get for me. SPEAKER_03: It's the snake eating its own tail. Laura: But, you know, we really, really love you guys. We love your podcast. And I just want to give our listeners a chance to get to know you guys. So, can you give us a really quick overview of your story with your daughter and mainly like her early years and what your podcast is about? SPEAKER_00: Sure thing, sensory overload is basically about our experience with our daughter who has autism. She's 10 now, like you said. And it's basically the earlier episodes sort of start with, you know, what happened as soon as we knew that she might have autism and then what did we do? We're our next steps and it was kind of tracking through that process. And then we Sort of worked her way through that. And now we're into, OK, what are we doing now in the pandemic? And what are the new challenges that come up? Or the new positives that come up, the things that we see from how she's developing and getting more mature and comfortable? So, yeah, that's basically what the podcast does. Also, fair warning, it's not safe for work or if you're not of our opinion about cuss words or just extra vocabulary, maybe not around the kids, but it's sort of a more humorous, starkly humorous take on parenting a special needs child because we found that most of the books and podcasts and stuff while helpful are a little, use the word journey a little too seriously for us. SPEAKER_03: They're really tense, most of these other podcasts. They're very clenched and very like, oh, we must be very cautious in everything we say. And we sort of throw caution to the wind to a degree. We still try and protect her privacy. But as far as our own experience goes, we try and be like, eh, sometimes it's good and sometimes it sucks. SPEAKER_00: We're a little, yeah, we try to be our kind of basic principle is that it's like, we're most helpful when we're being the most honest. And sometimes the honesty is, you know, like what y'all do too, where it's like, sometimes the honesty is like, yeah, I messed this up or, you know, oh, I realized now that I could have done this differently or this is actually really hard and nobody's talking about that. Or sometimes the honesty is like, I can't believe it. It's all working out right now. Amazing. So it's everything in between. So that's kind of our general principle. And we talk about all kinds of different. It's funny because it is sort of a parallel to y'all's in a lot of ways in that it's like we are trying to keep it sort of grounded information and sharing our personal experience with all of this. Shanna: Yeah, I love how honest your podcast is and what a great sense of humor you bring to it all. It's a really wonderful listen. And Laura and I both We love it, first of all, we love your show. And we've talked about how we think your show is very relevant to all parents, any parents, not just parents of children with special needs, because you bring a lot of really wonderful parenting insight to the table in your show. And so we really, really appreciate that about what you do. SPEAKER_03: Aw, you're so nice. SPEAKER_00: Well, that is one of our goals is that we want, you know, because really, one of the messages really is that parenting a child with special needs is kind of, is like just parenting any child. It's just got more sort of bureaucracy involved. SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there's more paperwork. SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's more to deal with and stuff, but it all comes down to like, are they eating well? Are they calm? Do they feel good about what they're doing? Are they safe? You know, those sorts of things. Shanna: Right. Could you take us back to the early years with Bethany when you started suspecting she might have a special need and what that journey looked like for you guys? And I don't use the word journey too heavy-handed here. It's more of a light touch. SPEAKER_03: You said journey. You're automatically out. SPEAKER_00: No, no. SPEAKER_03: They're fired from your own podcast. SPEAKER_00: Oh, no. Okay, so taking us back. Yeah, so when I would say Bethany seemed to, for the most part, progress pretty well until she was around two. And then we started to see that she was really anxious around kids. And there would be times where she would see another child that she didn't even know, she didn't even have to interact with, and she would just sob and get really upset. And that was kind of our big clue that something was going on, and we were trying to figure out what to do. SPEAKER_03: Also she was, we didn't realize it at the time, but she was very low verbal. And it was interesting because we had a friend whose child was even less verbal at the time than ours was. And we thought, well, ours is talking better than this other child. And so we seem to be on an okay keel. Then the other child's language just suddenly blew up and our kids did not. SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's one of the big things that was that was to our experience. Interesting was that we were kind of, you know, we were sort of the first or one of the first people in our sort of village of friends to have a kid and Bethany is an only child. And so we really didn't know what we didn't know. You know, we didn't have a lot to to compare her to. I mean, that's a terrible term, maybe. But SPEAKER_03: And her doctor was less than useful on this also. SPEAKER_00: Yeah. So I'll speak to that point because I think basically what came down is we realized she's so anxious around other kids. She has meltdowns all the time. I mean, I realized basically after a while, I realized that what I thought was the terrible twos was actually like really severe behavioral issues. And because a lot of those collide at the same time, it can be very confusing for parents. And, you know, we want to just be there for our kids and sort of like, you know, suck it up when it's hard, you know? And then I realized that, you know, there would be times where John would come home from work. I've usually been the primary caregiver and he would come home from work and it would just, I'd just be shaking because it would just be every 20 minutes, another huge violent meltdown. And I just kept thinking, God, these terrible twos are no joke. And then, but I was kind of, I was in a mom's club and stuff, but they still, it's just the kind of thing that can slip through, you know, sometimes where everybody goes, well, every kid develops at different rates and these sorts of things. And that's true, you know, but at the same time, it's like, I think sometimes our culture kind of gets overly like past the buck about that where it's just like, yeah, I guess they're not developing the same rate. Oh, well. It sucks to be you, bro. And then, so I finally, finally we're like, okay, let's try preschool. SPEAKER_03: Yeah, let's throw her to the socialization wolves and see what happens. SPEAKER_00: Let's see. Yeah, we thought that would do it. Oh, we were cute. Yeah, so we took her. SPEAKER_03: Well, thank God we got that idea finally because that was where we finally had somebody. Thank you. kindergarten or preschool teacher who basically Allie went to, you know, enroll her in this preschool and the teacher took her aside and was like, look, I, you know, I may be wrong about this, but you should know I'm seeing a lot of signs of potential autism in your child. And Allie, of course, called me up immediately and is like, autism, and I don't know what. And of course, being a very, you know, a sensitive thinking man, my first reaction was, well, fuck that teacher. She doesn't know the first thing that she's talking about. Now, most guys on the record, they tend to be like when they find out that their child potentially has autism, their first reaction is, no, we will not get her checked. I was the opposite. I was like, no, get her checked right away so I can shove it in this teacher's face that she's wrong and I'm right. SPEAKER_00: And of course, he wasn't there. So I mean, this woman could not be a more lovely, loving, sweet person. SPEAKER_03: Thank all the makers and all the gods that you know that somebody was on the ball. Because it's so hard to be able to tell somebody, hey, here's what I suspect about your child. And to take the potential blowback, because Allie's very nice. She's not going to say that. If we were in person, I would not have said anything of that sort to her face. SPEAKER_00: You know how to behave. SPEAKER_03: But on the inside, you're like, no, you're wrong. My child is fine. There's nothing. And so it's thank you to the people who help. Thank you to the people who put their neck out like that. SPEAKER_00: Who say that. And that's one of those things that I've then found myself in those positions over the years since where I'm like, you know. You might wanna, because here's the thing. I mean, I think looking back, I think the big piece of advice I love to pass on to other parents when their kids are smaller or just any age where they think there might be something that needs extra help is that assessments are just information. They're not a dirty word, you know? It's basically you take your kiddo to a neurologist or to a developmental pediatrician and they ask them questions and you questions, they get to know you both. And then they can give you information and sometimes they can find, they can say, Oh, actually, no, this is developmentally appropriate, but fair enough to be worried about it. You know, and then sometimes they can say, Nope, severe autism in here. Let's get you into treatment. But, you know, either when, you know, either you know that you're not, you're worrying for nothing, which is a very common parent thing or, you or you have next steps, you know, you have some tools, you're not alone in it, you know, that's that's so many parents just just stay home and suffer with something and their kids suffering for no reason, you know, there's so much help out there. SPEAKER_03: And we should say I mean there's a lot of time that then passes between the ages of two and ten but the the log line basically is we got her the help that she needed we got her into therapies we got her you know a lot of different programs and things to help her out and now at age ten. she's a much happier kid she's you know obviously she's different than other kids but the great thing about going down this path that we've gone down is that we've discovered oh well i mean there's you know she thinks differently than the rest of us but there's nothing wrong with that she doesn't need to be fixed she doesn't you know we just you know, we just needed to help her out in certain ways and other ways we can just sort of like aim her like a cannon and just let her, you know, go the way she wants to go. But, you know, she has worked extremely hard over the last eight years in all the therapies that we've gone through and all the different programs and things like that. So she's been doing wonderfully now. She's, you know, very independent. She's very strong will. She's got a wonderful sense of humor, which, you know, if you know us probably isn't a surprise. Yeah I mean that's and that's you know so that's the happy ending of it all for us is that you know yes she has challenges that we need to you know think our way around but for the most part she's an awesome kid and you know and autism is a part of her but it is not the thing that defines her it's You know, it's just one part of her personality and her personality is awesome. And so, yeah, all we're trying to do is just make sure that, you know, she can get along in the world. SPEAKER_00: And as far as that goes great, you know, and then, and then be out in the world trying to teach people about this so that there can be real acceptance. Because I feel like there for a long time, everybody was autism awareness. And what we're trying to really push is just acceptance and knowing that, you know, a lot of times anybody who has any sort of special need, we all have our own special needs, right? So it's like what kind of accommodations or what sorts of ways of learning or little things in life that you can tweak to be there for people in your life who have differences. Yeah. Laura: Right. Yeah, I just love how in your podcast you go through sort of all the steps of what happened. in your, you know, experience with Bethany. But one thing that really struck me as a parent of a child who appears to be neurotypical, he's, you know, Auggie is two and a few months now. So, but as far as I can tell, he's on the neurotypical range and I'm still listening to your podcast. I feel like I was getting so much out of it because there's a lot of stuff that you put extra focus on, but is useful for all parents. I feel like one of them that really stuck out to me was the social stories that you talk about a lot. Yeah, I was gonna mention that on here. Yeah, so like mines. Yeah, I was wondering if you could talk about social stories and how you use them. And if there's any other tips or tricks you think that are really sort of like across the board, parenting tips that you'd like to share. SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you'll have to just like blow a horn to stop me. So a social story is basically something that usually you make it yourself, but they have them available on things like Etsy and stuff that people will make. And it's basically about teaching your child a specific thing in life that they're struggling with or preparing them for things like a trip for example like say your child's never been on an airplane and they're going to go visit grandma and grandpa okay so then you can pull get pictures from grandma and grandpa of their lovely faces and their house and the inside the room that they're your child's going to sleep in and all these sorts of things and then you can pull together pictures of airplanes in the inside of an airport you know all these kinds of things and you put them into a little book and you use very simple language here is the airport You and mommy and daddy will go to the airport and we will stop outside and give them our bag and we will walk inside You know and you can break it down to however much you think is helpful for your particular child their age their understanding you know Where and also if you know there's certain things that are hard for them, like sleeping in someone else's house or the TSA line, which who doesn't have a hard time with that? You know, it's like whatever their particular thing is, then you can really break it down. First you pull, mommy will pull out the iPad from the backpack and put it in the gray bin. And then we, you know, so it's really just slowing things down. and and having it in a visual way. So I literally just make it on like PowerPoint and that or and then we print it at home and just staple it. But people do all kinds of other things. Sometimes they laminate them. It can be whatever level of advanced you want to be. SPEAKER_03: They can be like, you know, one of her therapists made one that was like a very colorful storybook, very, you know, is very elaborate and very, you know, like I say, colorful, lots of pictures and very, you know, explosively geared towards Bethany's likes. So SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but she's a professional. I'm a busy mom. So I have some pictures together and write some basic words and job done. But she loves them. Like, I mean, it's like her cherished possession or these social stories. And I think it's because it's like that effort, you know, whatever your your kids can really feel that you're trying to be there for them and communicate with them. It's like so important to them. So especially because Bethany has trouble sometimes with communication, her skills have gotten so much better in that area. She's a lot more comfortable. But Yeah so the social stories have been really big so anything and it's just one of those many tools where you can break things down for your kid and the more you can do that ahead of time. SPEAKER_03: That's very helpful we call that priming for autistic kids they're finding that people with autism tend to think a lot more visually so that the social story is mainly just putting a visual element to. you know this event you know it's it's it's putting the the visual in their head so that thing when they see oh this is grandpa and grandma's house they go oh i've seen that before i know what that is it's just adding that visual element to their thinking which you know hopefully like ali says it primes them it preps them it gets them prepared whereas like a lot of times the unknown will just throw them because You know, kids like routines anyway, but autistic kids tend to really like routines. They really like to know what is coming next. So that just helps reassure them basically. SPEAKER_00: And that really translates to just younger kids in general, right? I mean, they love pictures because they don't know how to read yet. They don't understand their language. Their understanding of language is still not anything like as good as ours. So, you know, I think that kind of thing could be helpful for any child. And it's all about reducing children's anxiety. Here's another one that I think is really big that I know a lot of parents talk about, but I'm just going to say it again because it took me so long to learn this. If your child is having a hard moment and melting down, it's not the time to try to reason with them. Like really don't say anything or say very little. Like you keep your language very simple when your child is upset and say things that are more like I'm here, you're gonna be okay, not you're okay, but you're gonna be okay. You know, like those sorts of things and say those over and over again because anything where you're like, but the thing is that I didn't give you a cookie because you already had three cookies and really, I mean, you can understand that, right? You know. SPEAKER_03: Trying to reason with them as a fool's game. Laura: Oh God, this is my life right now. This is my life. Auggie yesterday had a full meltdown crying on the floor. He actually was like naked waist down dragging himself on the floor. Of course he was, yeah. Because he couldn't fit into his baby brother's shoes. SPEAKER_03: Right. Of course. Laura: Yeah, that sounds right. It sounds right. And yeah, I was definitely making the mistake of being like, but those shoes are too small. Here, you have cute shoes. It doesn't work. It doesn't work. It doesn't fucking work. But you just have to be there and wait for it to pass. SPEAKER_00: Yep, wait for it to pass. And then after they're calm and you know they are not like, OK, they've stopped sobbing outright. It's like, then you can say like, oh, I'm sure that was really frustrating. I wish that I, you know, with the other. The other tool people gave us was this magical wand thing. Have you heard this? Mm-hmm. Where you go? No. Where you go, oh, honey, if I had a magical wand, I would make those shoes fit your feet. But we don't have one. I'm so sorry. And they just go, oh. Because it's like that empathy thing, you know? It's like saying, like, I wish what you wished was true was true too. I do. But it's not. I can't make your brother's shoes fit your feet. Mm-hmm. So here we are. But we're here together, so it's OK. know, like, because they have no emotional regulation, you know, when they're that little, they have no control over their emotions. Everything comes fast and furious. And so you just have to kind of, you know, don't leave the room, but like, you know, stay out of the way enough so that they don't accidentally, you know, throw something in you or whatever. I know I could get way too detailed. I'm like, yeah, tell me about the tantrum and I'll help you break it down. Shanna: Let's move on to our next topic of discussion because another thing I love about your podcast is that it's also very helpful for people who might have children of special needs in their life, not their own child, but someone that they know. Maybe a friend has a child with special needs and you actually recently devoted an entire episode to talking about how can we support those people in our life. So I was wondering if you could speak to that at all, give us a couple tips of what we could do if we know anyone like that in our life to be good supporters and friends and allies. SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely. So the episode you're referring to in case anybody wants to find that specific one and just like do a quick, you know, Cliffs Notes. It's called Tips for Civilians. And we make a lot of jokes about normies and civilians. It's just anybody that doesn't have a special needs child or doesn't have special needs themselves. It's just an inappropriate joke. But yeah, so I would say the big tips that we would have are remember that that parent is really overwhelmed. As overwhelmed as you are, they're even more overwhelmed because they're adjusting to what their particular child's needs are. They're probably dealing with more tantrums and less language. They're probably dealing with a lot of bureaucratic things in terms of getting them set up with therapies. They might have family members who are outright hostile about the situation. They might have partners that are. I mean, John is a lovely unicorn. A lot of dads are not very supportive. They won't accept it. Yeah. SPEAKER_03: Stupid dads. SPEAKER_00: Stupid dads. But that's part of our mission, too, is to show a dad that's part of it, that has accepted and is trying to be just a dad. And there's nothing to be scared of. It's not a shameful, stigma-ish thing. Let's move on and just help our kids. SPEAKER_03: The main tips that we sort of talked about when we were trying to get across like, well, if you meet somebody who's got an autistic kid or who themselves is autistic, what can I do? How can I be helpful? Usually it's the same things you would do in any situation that you yourself are sort of alien to. listen, you be patient, you try and be part of the solution and you kind of look to the people who are, you know, who maybe have more knowledge than you or look to the person themselves if they can communicate, you know, well, here's what I need and here's what I want. But to mostly just, you know, just think of them as, you know, they're just, they're people as well, you just have to be, you know, be chill and not be, you know, a jerk. SPEAKER_00: But I think a lot of it like real on a real practical level, be the one who plans the play date, you know, like be the one who takes on some of that sort of mental load of friendship a little bit more often. It's not fair for them to expect you to do that all the time. But just realizing that it doesn't have anything to do with you when they're not the one who does it. You know, there's definitely been times where I've fallen down on keeping up with people that I love that I, you know, that I'm like sad that I did that. And it's because you just get so overwhelmed. Uh, you're constantly, because the other thing too is when your kid is doing all these therapies and stuff, you're constantly scheduling. There's so much. Yeah. SPEAKER_03: You think you're a helicopter parent. Now, if you have a special needs kid, you become like a submarine parent. As I heard somebody call, you're just like, you are on top of this kid all day, you know, 24 seven and, you know, SPEAKER_00: And it's just, it's a game of Tetris with the scheduling. You're always like, well, I'd love to do a playdate, except they have to drive them to OT, and that's from this time to this time. But I have to factor in travel time. You know, it's all that kind of stuff that we, it's like packing the diaper bag, but times like a thousand. It's like that kind of stuff kind of all the time. So I'd say the big thing is to remember that sometimes they need you to take a little bit more of that lead, and that when the kid is first diagnosed, they're going to be a little bit boring and kind of talking about that particular stuff for a while. SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they're going to talk about autism all the time. SPEAKER_00: They'll get over it. You know, like, wait it out. They'll get over it, and they'll get through it, and they'll remember there are other parts of their life. SPEAKER_03: We got bored talking about autism too, so it happens. SPEAKER_00: The big thing too is just asking your friends, is there anything particularly about your child that I should know? Do they have trouble with loud noises? Do they feel better if they have something soft to sit on? Whatever it is, just open it up for them and listen. Laura: Yeah, actually, that kind of leads into our next question, which is you talked about what you can do if you have a friend who's going through an autism diagnosis with their child. But do you have any advice for parents who might suspect that their child might be on the autism spectrum? Because you know, most of our listeners are people who are pregnant or trying to conceive or they have very young kids. They're kind of concurrent with our children's ages for the most part. So generally like three and under. So I feel like that's sort of prime time for starting to wonder, starting to get diagnoses, right? Yes. SPEAKER_03: Yes. Well, nowadays it's getting to the point where they can start to diagnose them as early as, you know, months old, like 12 or 18 months old. SPEAKER_00: But I think overall what my advice would be is that if you think that your child has any sort of extra challenges or you have any suspicions, get them in early. Talk to your doctor. If it feels like your doctor is too easily dismissive or all children develop at different ages, like just go, okay, can I get a referral? And if you don't need one from the doctor, then just go directly through your insurance and go and talk to either a developmental pediatrician or a pediatric neurologist. Now, that term neurologist is very scary for people. They think it means that they're going to get some brain surgery or something. But it's really just somebody who really has a deep understanding into how young children's brains work. And they can help figure out if there actually is anything that needs extra help, or if it's just, hey, yeah, kids just develop at different times. But chances are, your instinct is probably right and your kid needs something. But putting it off is not going to help anything. The sooner, the better. That's why they put a big emphasis on early intervention these days. The earlier, because their brains and their bodies and everything are so malleable at this age that the earlier you can get them in, they can start to develop their language in a more meaningful way. They can have calmer behaviors and those sorts of things. SPEAKER_03: And there's a lot of things that even neurotypical kids, even if they don't have autism or if they don't have any other special need, they can get help. If your neurotypical kid is having, you know, speech delays, they can get speech help, even if they don't have a special need. It's like, oh, well, you know, we're trying to get all the kids to hit their milestones at the proper time. Maybe you need a speech coach for, you know, a few months or whatever. And then they catch up and then skies the limit. SPEAKER_00: A lot of kids, they just need help with specific things. You might need an occupational therapist for some feeding help. If your kid is really not eating anything besides one or two things or they have big aversions to textures and they're not just one years old, it's that kind of stuff that you have to remember that not every kid necessarily has some big diagnosable thing in terms of they might not have autism. It might turn out that they just need help with certain areas. And yay. There's all this help out there to help you. You don't have to just sort of like have a constant fight about dinner time or have a constant struggle to really understand each other. You have people out there that can help you. Also, if you're in California, you can go, uh, call your local, you can Google regional center and your zip code there. They are a bureaucratic nightmare, but they are a resource. So if you, especially if you don't have insurance and that sort of thing, they can get you set up with, with Medi-Cal and things like that for your child. SPEAKER_03: And I believe under the age of three, all of this is free, no? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, all of it is free through the regional center. SPEAKER_00: And then after that, then you go to your local school district and they'll do assessments for you as well. All of those things that aren't through insurance though take a lot longer. So we always recommend that you do both, that you sign up with your insurance and then you also sign up with the school district or the regional center because it's kind of like, which one of you guys is paying off first? It's like a series of slot machines. SPEAKER_03: It's like, yeah, it's your three different slot machines and you're feeding them all at once. You're like, come on, dala, dala, dala, dala. SPEAKER_00: Because I think a lot of people get very like, I'm on the wait list, it'll be fine. It's like, no, that can take a very long time. So just be really persistent, be polite, but persistent is what I always like to say. That's such good advice. Shanna: Thank you so much for sharing that with us. SPEAKER_00: Sure. Thank you for listening to us. Shanna: We ask all of our guests if they would share a recent big fat positive with us. So I was wondering if you both have a BFP that you can share with us. You want to go first? SPEAKER_03: Well, I'll go first. Well, our BFP is our child herself. She recently started going back to physical school after being locked down in quarantine for a year. And zooms were miserable and she we were very nervous about sending her back to school for you know lots of different reasons. But one of which was we were concerned that she was that because of all the parameters and things like that that she wasn't going to do well. She not only is doing well she's doing the best that she's ever done she she made like a quantum leap in her development so we're just yeah. thrilled about how well she's doing. I mean, she's at the age where that is not surprising for neurotypical kids. But for her, it's just been like she's been working so hard for so long. It's nice to see her being happy to be back at school and be happy to learn and just doing so well. That's the thing that we try and tell parents on our podcast is like, this stuff is a marathon. It's a long-term commitment. But when it pays off, you're just like, oh. This is amazing. Shanna: Aw, that's so wonderful. That's so great. Laura: I'm so happy for her. And I'm happy for you guys. You guys have some alone time in the house, probably. SPEAKER_03: Yeah, a couple hours. And we're both working, so it's not all that useful. SPEAKER_00: But it is I mean you guys y'all y'all know it you know it's like anytime I mean I get happy if they're out of the house for 20 and love them they're my favorite people but you know like 20 minutes is just like what is this glory So yeah, it is it isn't great because she's in a cohort model So she's gone for two and a half hours and I tell you it is a wonderful reset But for all of us I mean are lucky that we rent a big enough house that we all kind of have our space to work and stuff, too So it's pretty great. SPEAKER_03: We can escape each other, but now you're BF. Oh, yeah It has to be like a DVD or something that came out so then really down and dirt like my lofty SPEAKER_00: No, I'll try to match it. How about that? I'll take a challenge. I can't go into specifics yet, but I am going back to work and I have never really properly gone back to work since being a mom. And so that's my big fat positive is that I get to, I've been always working on things. I'm a filmmaker and now I actually get to start to really work with other people. How exciting. Yay. That is very exciting and it's really wild to feel like the big fat positive is that I get to look for childcare. But it feels that way to me. Laura: So yeah. I mean this is the dream, right, to be able to make stuff. SPEAKER_00: Yeah, to be able to make stuff and parent is the dream. So I'm really excited and a little nervous about integrating both of those things together. But I'm very excited for that opportunity. And especially the timing of like, Oh, this is, you know, I've been trying to do this for so long. And then the timing has worked out that she's doing the best she's ever done when this is happening. I mean, I can't believe my good fortune in that way. SPEAKER_03: Yeah, a couple of years ago, it would have been just like, well, this is going to wreck a lot of things. But now it's just like, oh, it's time. It's time for her to go back to work. It's time for Bethany to experience her parents working and a change around the house. I think she's ready for it. Laura: Yeah. Yeah, I'm so excited to hear about it. And Ali, I know you have to be kind of vague about it because stuff is still in the works. But the real benefit, plugging the podcast, is that I'm sure you're going to talk about it on sensory overload, right? SPEAKER_00: Oh, yes. I think that'll be a lot of what we talk about over the next few months is this transition into mama's work and now. Yeah. SPEAKER_03: Yeah. Laura: That'll be super interesting to listen to. SPEAKER_03: Yeah. The podcast started out with, well, this was our, you know, the sequential journey we went through. And then we sort of hit the, well, here's where we are now at around the same time the pandemic dropped. So we had to sort of veer into a different direction. So now we sort of, you know, it's a little bit more like, well, what are we doing now? How is her journey progressing now, her journey? You said it. Shanna: You said it. SPEAKER_03: I owe myself a dollar. Shanna: It's all a journey, John. SPEAKER_03: It's the worst. We're the worst. Parents of autism who talk about their journeys are the worst, and now I'm among the worst. SPEAKER_00: No, it's understandable. We think you're wonderful. SPEAKER_03: Oh, thank you. Well, tell all your listeners that they can come over to sensoryoverloadpodcast.com and join us for all the fun. Laura: Yes. Do you have any other social media links you'd like to drop so people know where to find you? SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you can email us at sensoryoverloadpodcast at gmail.com. On Twitter, we are at overloadpod. Instagram, we are sensoryoverloadpod. And at Facebook, it's facebook.com slash sensoryoverloadpod. where you can probably just type in sensory overload podcast and, you know, you'll find us, I hope. SPEAKER_00: Yeah. Okay. So I'm on all the social medias is Alison Starlock, A-L-I-S-O-N-S-T-A-R-L-O-C-K-E, like the philosopher. SPEAKER_03: She's like a hippie kid star in her name. Laura: And we're going to make sure to have all those links in our show notes so people don't have to remember this if they're driving the car right now. SPEAKER_03: Unless your heart. Thank you for having us on. Shanna: Yes. Thank you. Well, thank you guys so much. You're wonderful people, wonderful parents. I've known you for years. I've known Bethany since she was born. I've seen you parenting her. And even before I have had children, I looked at you guys as like inspiration. I'm going to get choked up here because this is so true. I looked at you guys as, oh, you're going to make me cry. I'm still going to say it. I looked at you guys as parenting inspiration because you were always just so kind and respectful to Bethany. I just wanted to be the parents that you are. And so a lot of the things I do have been modeled on how I've seen you parent her. So I just want to say that you guys are wonderful people and friends and parents. And it was such a pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you. Oh, thank you. SPEAKER_03: Well, can I say that you guys also your inspiration for our allies? Because you are among the people that we could go to a kid's birthday party. We could bring Bethany and we could bring our therapist at the same time, Bethany's therapist. And you were like, I don't care. Give her a piece of pizza. Let's, you know, yeah, yeah. Shanna: Absolutely. SPEAKER_03: You helped normalize a thing that for us was very difficult to come to. And you normalized it. And it's wonderful. And it made Bethany feel that much better because she loves parties. SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's another thing. You can always be helpful to your friends by just being like, you know, just inviting people and being cool and just being excited together. SPEAKER_03: And when they have to bring a truckload of therapists or extra things, just be like, eh, that's what happens. SPEAKER_00: Give all the therapists all the pizza. That's what I say. Yeah, well, I really am so impressed by your podcast and I love what you're putting out there and just really just making sure that everybody knows that all of their unique parenting experiences are normal and valid. And it's just lovely. It's just so much goodness that you're putting out in the world. So I'm honored to be a part of it. Laura: Oh, that's a lot. Oh, man. This love fest is going to make our viewers have a, like, diabetic coma. So maybe we should. SPEAKER_03: No, we need to say some harsh things now. Laura: We need to get in the dirt. How about instead we take a break and then Sean and I will come back with our BFPs and BFNs for the week. SPEAKER_00: Let's do it. All right. Laura: Thank you for having us. SPEAKER_03: Thanks, guys. Laura: Okay, we are back and we close every show with our Big Fat positives or Big Fat negatives of the week. Shanna, do you have a BFP or a BFN for us? Shanna: I have a BFP. Yay. Yay. It's a bath toy that the girls got in their Easter basket recently. And it's called the Crayola Color Bath Drops. D-R-O-P-Z drops. Okay, drops. Sweet. So you know they're cool. I found these at Target. They're so cool. They come in a little tub and they look like little round vitamin tablets really. But they're blue, there's red and there's yellow. and you drop the tab into the bathwater and it colors the bathwater. Like that's it, that's the whole concept. But kids go bonkers for this stuff. Laura: But it doesn't like stain their body or anything? No, it doesn't stain. Shanna: Mm-mm. No, it's perfect. And they use a lot, too, because especially Elle likes to take things over the top. She can't just have one tab. She needs to have as many tabs as I will let her have. And I've let them use maybe five at a time. OK. Yeah. And of course, she wants to mix and match, so the water ends up brown, but whatever. They still like it. And they're just really fun and little novelty that makes them excited about bath time every day this week. If they're puttering around out in the living room, kicking their feet to come to bath, I'm like, time to pick your tablet. What color do you want? And they come running in. They're like, oh my god, tablet, tablet, tablet. I want yellow. No, I want red. And it just is a big hubbub. It's very exciting and they really love it. So it's been a big hit in our house. Laura: Do they like fizz when you put them in or something? Shanna: They fizz a little bit. The tablets aren't that big. They're like the size of like a vitamin C tablet, you know? Okay. Yeah, sure. So there's like a little fizzy action going on and then they do things like take the tablet as it's melting away and then right on the bathroom, right on the bathtub wall with it and stuff like that. Laura: So you can find different creative ways to use them. That sounds fun. I can see like maybe having like a bucket and putting one in the bucket and then you could pour one color into the other. That could be fun. Shanna: Yeah, you can do little experiments. We did that the first day we've made like a big cup of yellow in a glass, like a clear glass and then put in a blue and watched it turn green. So there's some learning that can happen with these two. Laura: Oh, cool. Yeah, I think that we need some new bath toys because Spouty has kind of lost his shine. Shanna: Oh, Spouty. I forgot. Spouty died a long time ago in our house, so he hasn't been around. RIP Spouty. RIP Spouty. Laura: It's about me still going strong here, but I, you know, he gets turned on and then forgot about poor little guy. So we definitely, we could use some new toys. So all right, can you remind us what they are again? I will make sure we'll put the link on our show notes, of course, on our website, but. Shanna: Yes, it's Crayola Color Bath Drops, D-R-O-P-Z. Okay, I will be adding those to my cart immediately, as usual. Laura: Yes. Shanna: All right, what about you? Do you have a BFP or a BFN? Laura: I have a BFP. All right. So, okay, mine is an update, actually. If you recall, in episode 145, we did gripe water as our special segment, and I was complaining about how baby pants have more pockets than women's pants. Yeah. So luckily, listeners have chimed in to help me out. And I've actually found a couple pairs of pants that I want to report back on that have good pockets and are actually comfortable. Ooh, please share. Okay. So the first one are a pair of jeans that I got. They're from the Gap and they are the Sky High Universal jeggings. So they're like really stretchy. You know, they look like jeans. They have a zipper and everything. They're not just pull-on jeggings, but they're really, really stretchy jean fabric. So they're super comfortable. Oh, I love stretchy jeans. Yes. And they have big pockets, both in the front and the back. So you can actually, here, hold on. Let's see. I'm wearing them right now. Let's see, can I do this? Okay, experiment failed. I couldn't put my whole phone in the front pocket, but I can put my whole phone in the back pocket. So that's good. That's important. Yeah, I feel like that's an improvement off of most women's pants anyway. So I get the sky high universal jegging with secret smoothing pockets. I don't really understand what's so secret and smoothing about them, but they're there. Shanna: And very cool. What does sky high mean? Does it come up to your boobs or what? Laura: Okay. Yes. This is the key because I found that like normal high rise pants are not high enough for me. They cut me off right at like a very awkward place that just like causes the like dreaded muffin top, which like it's just uncomfortable to have a muffin top and like your shirts look weird and I'd rather not have them. So I get the sky high and they go like up Just a little higher not all the way up to your boobs but pretty close but it definitely covers the like postpartum soft belly area that you know most people don't want to like stick out elastic waistband right in the middle of generally. So yeah I'm very into the sky high and so these are actually listed right now. the like list price is $59.95, which is not that bad for jeans to begin with, but I've never not seen them on sale. So like today they're on sale for $27. There's like a couple styles. So Gap always has sales. So. You shouldn't have to pay full price for them. So I think I'm going to be buying a new pair of those. Awesome. Okay, so I have one more suggestion. If we have time, do we have time? I think so. Okay. Okay. So this one was actually recommended on Instagram by a listener named Becca. And I got them on Amazon. They're a legging like a workout pant, yoga pant type thing. And they're called Udoos, E-W-E-D-O-O-S, which is a strange way to spell Udoos. Yoga pants for women with pockets, high-waisted leggings. So they are yoga pants, which are very, very comfortable, nice high-rise on them. And then they have these two big pockets like on the side of each thigh. that are definitely big enough for your phone. So I've been wearing those a lot and I think I'm going to get another pair of those. And there's a bunch of different colors too, which is really cool. I got like a charcoal color, but they have like this teal color that I might be getting because I love wearing teal. You have me at teal. I know you know you like the teal too and they are Listed for 30 bucks, but right now they're 22 bucks. So you know pretty reasonable So yeah, I highly recommend them and thank you Becca for that recommendation You have made my life easier because now I have my phone. Shanna: Yeah, I think that would be really helpful when I go for my walks because I like to bring my phone and There's usually nowhere to put it I've been using a fanny pack But it might be good to get some pants like that and then just put my phone in the pocket as I walk Laura: Yep. Yep. You don't need that fanny pack anymore. Sorry fanny pack. Oh, sorry fanny pack. Anyway, I'll send you a link to this because I know you like the teals and the blues and you need somewhere to put your phone too. Women need somewhere to put their phones people. Yep. Yep. But anyway, that's those are my BFPs. I now have pants with pockets and now I kind of want to throw away all my pants that don't have pockets. Do it. They don't deserve to live. They don't deserve me. No. Shanna: But maybe I should go do that after we wrap up our episode. All right, let's do it. Listeners, if you have any BFPs for us or anything else you want to share, you know we love hearing from you. Laura, where can everyone reach us? Laura: We are on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook at BFPPodcast. We also have a website, bigfatpositivepodcast.com. If you want to send us an email, you can always include a voice memo in that email. Just send it to contact at bigfatpositivepodcast.com. And finally, if you want to join the best community on the internet, go to Facebook, search for big that positive community request to join answer the two membership questions because it's a private group and we want to make sure you're not a robot and then you will get admitted into the most wonderful community of parents that I've known on the internet I don't know about you it's just wonderful Shanna: love it. And if you love our show, please rate and review us wherever you listen to podcasts. That's super helpful for us and for other listeners looking for shows about pregnancy, parenting, trying to conceive, et cetera. And spread the word. Let your friends know about BFP. Our show is produced by Laura Birek, Shanna Micko, and Steve Yager. Thanks for listening, everyone. Bye. Bye.